Posted on 04/06/2004 6:37:05 AM PDT by Happy2BMe
FALLUJAH, Iraq - U.S. troops battled guerrillas Tuesday on the edges of Fallujah, where hundreds of Marines and Iraqi troops have surrounded one of Iraq (news - web sites)'s most violent cities in an operation to crush the insurgency there. The military reported five Marines were killed and two wounded in the operation, which was more than 24 hours old With the Marines engaged in fighting around Fallujah, there was more violence in northern Baghdad in which three soldiers died Monday and Tuesday.
The U.S.-led coalition remained in a standoff with anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, whose supporters and militias were responsible for clashes throughout the country over the weekend.
In a series of U.S. television interviews Tuesday, L. Paul Bremer, the top civilian administrator in Iraq, conceded not all was going smoothly as the coalition approached a June 30 handover of sovereignty to the Iraqis.
"We have problems, there's no hiding that. But basically Iraq is on track to realize the kind of Iraq that Iraqis want and Americans want, which is a democratic Iraq," Bremer said on ABC's "Good Morning America."
But he said continuing disturbances would not affect the American handover schedule.
"June 30 is the date. We're going to stick to it," he said.
The military did not give details on the five deaths, saying only that they occurred in Anbar province, home to Fallujah. Witnesses reported another American had been killed in Tuesday's fighting, but that report could not immediately be confirmed.
The deaths in the past two days brought to at least 614 the number of Americans killed in Iraq since the war began.
The bulk of the coalition force has remained on Fallujah's edge, apparently held at bay by tough resistance from anti-American fighters against Marine forays probing the outskirts.
American commanders have vowed to root out insurgents after last week's slaying and mutilation of four American civilians. Scenes of Iraqis dragging charred bodies through the streets and hanging two of them from a bridge Wednesday raised revulsion in the United States and showed the depth of anti-U.S. sentiment in the city.
The assault on Fallujah, west of Baghdad, coincides with a tougher U.S. stand on the fiercely anti-American al-Sadr, who has built up a private militia, the al-Mahdi Army.
U.S. officials have suggested they will move soon to arrest al-Sadr, who announced Tuesday he left a mosque in the city of Kufa, south of Baghdad, where he has been holed up since Sunday. He is surrounded by militiamen pledging to resist any attempt to capture him.
Al-Sadr moved to his office in the nearby city of Najaf, in an alley near the city's holiest shrine, according to a top aide, Sheik Qays al-Khaz'ali.
Asked if al-Sadr would resist if U.S. forces try to arrest him, al-Khaz'ali replied: "God forbid if this happens, al-Sayed will win martyrdom."
Al-Khaz'ali quoted al-Sadr as saying, "My fate will be either assassination or arrested."
In a statement released earlier, al-Sadr said he was moving to avoid bloodshed in a mosque. "I feared that the sanctity of a glorious and esteemed mosque would be violated by scum and evil people," he said. The Americans "will have no qualms to embark on such actions."
"I have pledged not to allow a drop of blood to be shed except my own," al-Sadr said. "I'm prepared to have my own blood shed for what is holy to me." Al-Sadr's militiamen clashed with coalition troops Sunday in Baghdad and outside the city of Najaf, to the south, in fierce fighting that killed 61 people, including eight American soldiers. Clashes also broke out Monday in a northern Baghdad neighborhood. The deaths of the three U.S. soldiers announced Tuesday occurred in a neighborhood near the scene of Monday's fighting, but the military did not release details. The confrontation with al-Sadr and the offensive against Fallujah appeared to be a tougher approach by U.S. forces ahead of the June 30 handover. After Sunday's violence, Bremer canceled a trip to Washington this week, a Senate aide said Monday. No reason was given, the aide said. A senior officer in Washington said U.S. military commanders have begun studying ways they might increase troops in Iraq should violence spread. Generals believe they have enough forces to handle the attacks, including the Shiite militia violence, but want to know what is available if the situation gets worse, said the officer, briefing reporters on condition of anonymity. In Fallujah, explosions and gunfire were heard from the city through the night Monday and into Tuesday morning, apparently U.S. troops shelling targets and clashing with guerrillas as Marines probed the outskirts with reconnaissance patrols. A force of Marines pushed into an eastern neighborhood, clashing with guerrillas Tuesday. Gunmen carrying automatic weapons were seen in the streets. Guerrilla fire set one vehicle ablaze, said a witness, Issam Mahmoud, who said a soldier inside was killed. There was no immediate confirmation of the death. Troops broke into houses in the neighborhood, carrying out searches, and entered a mosque, witnesses said. U.S. troops waiting on the northern edge of Fallujah for orders to move in came under fire from nearby houses Tuesday, wounding two Marines. Tanks and Humvees moved into the neighborhood where the fire came from, and the sound of tank fire was later heard. The military reported six Iraqis killed in fighting Monday, saying all were guerrillas, though residents said five of them were killed when helicopters hit a residential area. In the nearby city of Ramadi, another hotbed of guerrilla activity 24 miles west of Fallujah, U.S. troops and insurgents clashed on a downtown street. One Iraqi was killed and three wounded, doctors said. The offensive against Fallujah, 30 miles west of Baghdad, targets Sunni Muslim insurgents who have been waging a campaign of violence against U.S. forces and their allies for months. The showdown with al-Sadr could increase tensions with Iraq's Shiite majority, although most Shiites reject the 30-year-old al-Sadr as a renegade and look to older, more moderate clerics for leaderships. U.S. officials appear to be counting on Shiites not to rally around al-Sadr if they move against him. Violence continued Tuesday in two southern cities. Al-Sadr supporters clashed Tuesday with British troops in the southern city of Amarah, and witnesses reported seeing Iraqis killed in the fight. British officials had no immediate comment. Gunmen attacked Italian forces in the southern city of Nasiriyah on Tuesday, wounding 12 troops, the Italian Ministry of Defense in Rome said in a statement.
It said the assailants fired on the soldiers as they were patrolling a bridge over the Euphrates River. The soldiers returned fire and it was not clear if any of the attackers suffered casualties.
Glorious is right - when we see your ar$e hanging off the short end of a rope.
I do differ from Bush in other areas. I am not quite as compassionate as him and am not convinced his people are worth saving (at the expense of more American lives). I also differ in that I am not as convinced as he is that we can bring about a democratic gov't in Iraq. I am also convinced we should be more brutal in our responses to the thugs in Iraq.
I don't reckon you recall the way Virginia Colonel George Rogers Clark tomahawked 4 Indian raiders to death in front of the British garrison of Ft Sackville at Vincennes, then giving the British defenders who had been paying for American scalps the choice of surrender, or the same treatment when the fort fell.
The British under the command of Henry *Hair-buyer Hamilton surrendered, 25 February 1779.
About two in the afternoon the party of Indians which had gone towards the falls of Ohio returnd, and advancing over the common to the fort, seeing the English flag flying and not knowing that we were attacked, discharged their pieces-- tis usual with them to fire three vollies on their approach to a fort or a town, as a salute, this is practiced also among themselves--
This party was in all but 15 or 16 men, of whom were the two serjeants of Volunteers--
Colol. Clarke being informed of their arrival, sent off 70 men to attack them, who fired on these people unprepared for such a salute, killed one wounded two and made 5 of the rest prisoners taking them to the Village--
On their arrival, they were placed in the street opposite the Fort Gate, where these poor wreches were to be sacrificed--one of them a young Indian about 18 Years of age the son of Pontiach, was saved at the intercession of one Macarty a Captain of Colol. Clarkes Banditti, who said he was formerly owed his life to the Indian's father--
One of the others was tomahawked either by Clarke or one of his Officers, the other three foreseeing their fate, began to sing their Death song, and were butcherd in succession, tho at the very time a flag of Truce was hanging out at the fort and the firing had ceased on both sides-- A young chief of the Ottawa nation called Macutté Mong one of these last, having received the fatal stroke of a Tomahawk in the head, took it out and gave it again into the hands of his executioner who repeated the Stroke a second and third time, after which the miserable being, not entirely deprived of life was dragged to the river, and thrown in with the rope about his neck where he ended his life and tortures--This horrid scene was transacted in the open Street, and before the door of a house where I afterward was quarterd, the master of which related to me the above particulars-- The Blood of the victims was still visible for days afterwards, a testimony of the courage and Humanity of Colonel Clarke--
When the prisoners were brought in, Bosseron the Villain already mentioned, levelld his piece at Serjeant Sanscrainte, whose father (who had come with Clarke from the Ilinois) at that instant stepping up raised the muzzle and obtained his son's life by applying to Colol. Clarke--
Serjeant Robert was saved by his sister's interceding-- The flag of truce had been hung out on the occasion of my sending a messenger to Colol. Clarke that, I would treat with him about the surrender of the Fort on honorable terms if he would come to a parly, & that I would talk with him on the Subject in the Fort, passing my word for his security--he sent word he would talk with me on the parade-- we were each to bring a person to be present at our interview--
In consequence I met him on the parade outside the Fort, he had just come from his Indian tryumph all bloody and sweating-- seated himself on the edge of one of the batteaus, that had some rainwater in it, & while he washed his hands and face still reeking from the human sacrifice in which he had acted as chief priest, he told me with great exultation how he had been employed-- The Soldiers in the fort having some suspicion of treachery were got into the Blockhouse next us with their pieces loaded and kept a watchfull eye on us during our conversation-- The Colonel proceeded to tell me that it was in vain to think of persisting in the defence of the fort, that his cannon would be up in a few hours, that he knew to a man who of my people I could depend upon, with every other circumstance of my situation, and that if from a spirit of obstinacy I perseverd while there was no prospect of relief, and should stand an assault, that not a single man should be spared--
I replyed that tho my numbers were small I could depend on them, he said he knew the reverse, that there were but 35 or 36 that were really staunch & that I could depend on, and that 'twas folly to think of making a defence against such unequal numbers-- That if I surrenderd at discretion and trusted to his generosity, I should have better treatment than if I articled for terms. My answer was, Then Sir I shall abide the consequences, for I never will take a step so disgraceful! and unprecedented while I have ammunition and provision--
You will (said he) be answerable for the lives lost by your obstinacy-- I said my men had declared they would die with arms in their hands rather than surrender at discretion-- The officer who was with him said he wished we should come to some composition rather than that blood should be spilt-- I said that I would accept such terms as should consist with my honor and duty-- that as I knew what I might pretend to, it would take but little time to draw up articles-- he said he would think upon it and return in half an hour-- he returned accordingly with Captain Bowman one of his Officers, and I met him with Major Hay-- We resumed our conversation, he seemed as determined as before, I then said further discourse was vain I would return to the fort, and to prevent mistakes the firing should not recommence, till an hour after our parting, that each side might be prepared, I then gave him my hand saying we might part as gentlemen tho not as friends-- I had gone but a little way when Hajor Hay and Captain Bowman called me back, the subject was resumed, and Colonel Clarke agreed to my sending terms which he should assent to or reject, according as he should find their tenor-- They were sent that same evening, C. Clarke made his answer, and I agreed to the conditions, having first assembled the Officers and exposed to them the necessity of the step--
The Men were next called together and I convinced them that the King's service could not derive any advantage from our holding out-- some reasons already touched upon wae given them in which they acquiesced, some not mentioned in the capitulation I shall here take notice of. Viz! The Stockades had originally been so ill set up, that a man might pass his closed fist between several of them, which gave a great advantage to people armed with rifles-- The Fort was nearly surrounded by houses or other buildings which as the inhabitants had renewed their allegiance we could not consistently destroy--The N.E. Angle of of the fort projected over the sandy bank of the river, & could have been undermined by the assailants under cover-- I knew the enemy must shortly have their Cannon up, having heard the report of one while in conference with Clarke, & tho' I knew he could have but the three pounders which had belonged to Fort Chartres, their coming up would have given him such a confidence that we might be driven to accept any terms he might exact--
The poltronnerie and treachery of our french Volunteers who made half our number, with the certainty of the St. Vincennes men having joined Colol. Clarke, and the miserable state of our wounded men, all conspired to make me adopt the disagreeable terms of capitulation which are refered to No. Before the capitulation was signed I had consulted with Major Hay on the practicability of getting off to the settlement of the Natchez on the Mississipi, where we knew we had friends, and where our number tho slender, would have been of some service-- we had in the fort two staunch pittyaugers in which the salted Buffalo had been kept during the winter we had oars and paddles sufiicient, and thought it practicable to raise some of the Stockades silently and launch the boats undiscoverd by the Enemy, but the treachery of our inmates and the necessity of leaving our wounded men behind made us relinquish this scheme which at first view had flatter'd us with an appearance of faisability--
The greater part of the night I passed in sorting papers and preparing for the disagreable ceremony of the coming day--
The mortification, disappointment and indignation I felt, may possibly be conceived if all the considerations are taken together which suggested themselves in turn-- Our views of prosecuting any design against the enemy totally overturned-- The being captives to an unprincipled motley Banditti, and the being betrayed and sacrificed by those very people who owed the preservation of their lives and property to us, and who had so lately at the foot of the altar called God to witness their sincerity and loyalty--
24th--This morning Captain Helm came to me at 7 o'Clock and gave me to understand that Colonel Clarke had been informed that we had been hard at work all night in the Fort fixing powder chests underground, that the 6 Pr. was to be loaded with grape and planted opposite the Fort gate, that whenever the enemy entered to take possession it was to be fired by a train, & the chests were to be sprung by a match-- I imputed this report to the machinations of the french but assured him I was incapable of so villainous a scheme-- he said he had told C. Clarke as much--
Another attempt of the inhabitants to induce the rebels to treat us with the utmost severity and even cruelty was the following-- A paper was presented to Colonel Clarke in which it was asserted that during our stay at St. Vincennes we had treated them in the harshest and most unjust manner, but what was judged could not fail of raising the fury and indignation of the rebels to the highest pitch, was the infamous falsehood of this paper with respect to William Williams the prisoner, who it was declared had been stripped naked, dragged thro' the streets by the hair & kicked & buffetted by the English Officers after which he was tyed to a stake and threatned to be burned alive if he did not consent to marry an Indian Woman-- This paper was signed by two of the principal inhabitants, with a view no doubt of stirring up the rebels to a severe retaliation--
At ten o'Clock we marched out with fixed Bayonettes and our Knapsacks, the terms of capitulation with other papers may be seen at the end of this Diary--(249)
Tho one of the propositions made to Colol. Clarke before he took possession, was that the stores should be deliverd up by an inventory he neglected it--
The Colors were not hoisted this morning that we might be spared the mortification of hawling them down but the Rebels had them presently hoisted with their 13 Stripes over them--
Haec memiri, & victum frustra contendere Thyrsia--
Immediately after the Americans had taken possession, they fired a salute of 13 rounds from the 6 pounder in one of the Blockhouses, but by some carlessness, a cask of cannon cartridges took fire, and blew up Captains Bowman and Widdrington of the Americans with two others of their men, and a Soldier of the King's one of our additional gunners who tho scorched and most of his skin blown from his face and arms and nearly blinded was tolerably recovered before we left Post Vincennes, being a very brave hardy fellow and suffering great torment with uncommon fortitude --(250)
The force of the explosion displaced the log work an inch & half tho' mortaised, and threw a frenchman over the wall into the street-- he fell at least 10 feet but lighting on his feet unhurt, he ran to his Officer & boasted of his alertness
Le Gras and Bosseron had the curiosity to come to the fort to see as they said quelle countenance tiendrait Mons. le Gouvaneur (251) These persons who had set an example to the wretches of the place of perjury and treason, forgot that they were indebted to me for not only the preservation of their properties, but of their lives--
In the afternoon Colonel Clarke and his Officers (so called) being assembled in the little room in the fort, He asked of me who were the persons under my orders who had been employed with the Indians, I told him they were present & would answer for themselves, which they having done, the Colol. orderd one of his Officers to go for the smith & direct him to make irons for them all, which should confine the neck hands and feet--
I was exceedingly shocked at this speech, and desired Colol. C. to walk out of the room, when I desired him to explain what I was to understand by the order he had just given-- he said he had taken a solemn resolution to make examples of all who had acted with the Indians without exception--
I said whatever were his resolutions, he must remember that he had just put his hand to a capitulation by which we were or ought to be secured from any act of violence--
He said he had taken an oath & was fixed in his resolution-- I replyed that if he was capable of acting in that manner, he must renounce all pretensions to the character of an Officer or a gentleman-- He smiled contemptuously, but I observed that it was not a matter to trifle upon, that these Gentlemen had done no other than their duty in obeying the orders I had given them, that I stood responsible for their actions, and since my situation had reduced me so low as to ask a favor of him, I must request he would put me in irons rather than them-- he paid as little attention to this-- I remarkd that his behaviour was unaccountable, to act in such a manner and at the same time permit me to carry a loaded pistol in my girdle-- He broke off abruptly, & returning to his Company, orderd Mr. Chabert, Reaume, La Mothe and Maisonville to be put prisoners--
This day the scalps of the poor murtherd Indians were hung up just at our tent doors, pour nous encourager--
25th This day one Raimbault (252) a young man who had served as a volunteer with the Indians was brought into the fort with a rope about his neck and his Judges were in the act of hanging him, when some of the French from the Ilinois interposed and he was taken down from the tree half strangled--
Each instance of substantial Justice gave me no pleasing prospect of what we might expect further from such Picarros--
Colonel Clarke told me this day, that if Charles Baubin & Hypolite Baulon (who accompanied the Indians on the scout to Kaskasquias, & had carried my letters) had done their duty that he with 4 of his Officers, should have been my prisoners but that I had been betrayed-- (253) //By this account, the reason became sufficiently apparent why some of the gentry who went off to Detroit, were so ingenious in framing excuses--// The party of Indians had placed themselves in ambuscade, on the road between Kaskasquias, & Cahokia & must effectually have secured Colonel Clarke and his Officers-- V Colol. Clarke told me allso some particulars of his marcb which were very extraordinary-- He had left the Ilinois when the Waters were out & had marched for 15 days successively, his people being exposed all that time to the inconveniencies of marching thro a flooded Country-- They set out without provision trusting entirely to the Buffaloe or other game they might chance to fall in with on their route-- The greater part of his people were half naked-- His powder was all damaged before he arrived at St. Vincennes-- a nights frost must have destroyed his whole party--
Colonel Clarke's having succeeded under such circumstances illustrates the following remark made by some author whose name I do not recollect // "A Sanguine temper forsees few difficulties and sometimes owes success to a fortunate rashness which is esteemed by shortsighted people as taking Fortune in the willing mood--tis true Fortune favors the bold, but the rash have no pretensions to her favor--"//
As we sat together this evening the Colonel giving a loose to his military ardor said that he expected shortly to see the whole race of Indians extirpated, that for his part he would never spare Man woman or child of them on whom he could lay his hands-- I represented to him the Indians having so far foregone their usual habits as to have saved the lives of several of their captives and desired him to enquire of Henry the Armourer who had been at Detroit and been witness to the treatment of Prisoners, which when the Colonel had done and received such answers as were indeed consistent with truth, Clarke turned to me and said Sir I find I have been mistaken in your character & facts have been grosly misrepresented-- On his renewing his threats against the Indians, I warned him against exasperating a people who were so capable of ravaging the frontiers, & being renderd implacable by severities, at the same time I quoted Mr: Gay, as authority for humanity being the proper companion to true courage "Cowards are cruel, but the brave" he appeard rather checkd "love mercy, and delight to save" and mortifyed.
Historically, archy, isn't that a credit to our awesome troops, and a very good first day's efforts?
1st Infantry Division took some bad guys off the streets. Didn't make the mainstream headlines, though every mainstream international press outlet will be sure to headline every precious life lost, as if they care about the troops.
Facts, at least, are usually correct at CJTF-7, and CENTCOM...and when they aren't they correct them, and not buried on the 'back page'.
Most of our allies in Iraq are not speaking to the press, and AP and co. will exploit every potential negative to undermine morale here and at abroad, a daily recap of all that's negative "since May 1st...." - while ignoring the good.
Our troops don't deserve this from our free press.
Sorry to say, but I believe it's now 5 Marines KIA in Fallujah. Four Marines KIA in the IED explosion, one KIA in a exchange of fire in one of the outer neighborhoods of the city while first probing city defenses. At least one Iraqi also killed in that exchange as well.
It's always a victory when casualties can be held to the minimum possible; compared and contrasted to some meatgrinders American Marines have found themselves in our casualty rates appear neither wasteful nor excessive. But Marines who suggested that their methods and equipment would have resulted in fewer casualties than those suffered by the Rangers in Mogadishu may soon choose to reevaluate their opinion.
And even one KIA is always, always a tragedy.
One other thing to recall: it seems that our Marines are being accompanied by the Iraqi police/army they've been training, something like 1600 of them. Our Marines are NOT carrying this load alone.
There've also been reports of AC130 Spectre/Spooky gunship fire into buildings as Marines have drawn fire. That's a particularly dangerous enviornment for a C130 to be working, but those Marines need their fire support.
-archy-/-
ALLIED FORCES PINNED DOWN ON BEACHES!
FDR SILENT ON MASSIVE CASUALTIES!
DEFEAT IMMINENT: IKE'S PLAN GOES AWRY!
Thanks for the correction. I was too angry at the press and didn't check for details on the fifth Marine.
The newswires put out multiple reports, w/ changing headlines throughout the day (which end up as separate threads) - often including more than a single day's casualties - so the perception, if one glances at headlines throughout the day as most "news" consumers do, is of increasing attacks resulting in repeated multiple US deaths - when it's often the same story, over and over.
Is it correct to call Marines "Soldiers" (as in this headline)?
And even one KIA is always, always a tragedy.
Amen...and why I would never post to a mainstream press article exploiting them if given another, more respectiful alternative.
It's correct to refer to Marines as soldiers, as soldiering is their job. They prefer to be described as Marines, capitalized, though when a description such as *In Afghanistan, the Taliban was defeated by soldiers trhat included British, Canadian, Australian and American army units and American Marines.* includes them collectively with other military units, they grudgingly accept the description.
Amen...and why I would never post to a mainstream press article exploiting them if given another, more respectiful alternative.
Just so. But understand that in circumstances such as those now ongoing, it's very easy for a on-the-scene reportr assembled in haste and under press restrictions to appear cursory or less than respectful, when that's not at all the intent of the writer. Additions and rewrites by copy editors at home don't help matters either.
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