U.S. scrambles for armored cars as troops make do with sandbags

Baltimore Sun ^ | March 27, 2004 | Tom Bowman

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Soldiers in Afghanistan, Iraq need twice as many such vehicles, officials say

FORT POLK, La. - When soldiers of the Army's 1st Infantry Division rolled into Iraq several weeks ago, they lacked enough armored Humvees for everyone. So, like the soldiers in other units, some of them had to stack sandbags behind the Humvees' front seats - an all-but-useless way to fend off the bullets and roadside bombs that have killed scores of U.S. troops. [emphasis Cannoneer's]

One year after U.S. troops invaded Iraq, soldiers are coursing through dusty country roads and teeming city streets without adequate armor protection. Troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are equipped with roughly 2,300 armored Humvees - only about half as many as commanders say are needed to guard against the roadside bombs that have become the insurgents' deadly weapon of choice.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

The objective here is to blame Bush and Rumsfeld.

I have reason to believe there are 'rat politicians who have staffers assigned to scan all the media for news of somebody from their state or district killed in Iraq or Afghanistan, who then investigate the circumstances to see if the service member was riding in an unarmored vehicle or did not have the latest Interceptor body armor. If they were KIA but were armored, their next of kin get a condolence letter. If they weren't armored, the next of kin get invited to testify before Congress and make speeches at political rallies.

It's all part of the INFOWAR and all who post on FR are combatants in it.

[cyborg]

Where were these people when BJ Klintoon sent troops into Somalia with rubber bullets?

[Sacajaweau]

This armour really puts a drag on these vehicles. In some cases, it will be a benefit..in others, not.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

ping

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Please click on the Baltimore Sun link. Admin Mod butchered my excerpt beyond recognition.

[American Soldier]

Sometimes there are uses for vehicles with little protection (for example, for scouting purposes I would want a Hummer with everything but the wheels ripped off of it).

But most convoys, travelling in large groups and in a none-too-stealthy fashion, I would want a few armored vehicles with good-sized (7.62mm or up) turred-mounted machine guns. Preferably, I'd even want a grenade launcher and a .50 cal machine gun thrown in. Enough to get the dirtbags' heads down as you get out of the kill zone, and maybe take a few of them down on your way out.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

[SamAdams76]

So, like the soldiers in other units, some of them had to stack sandbags behind the Humvees' front seats - an all-but-useless way to fend off the bullets and roadside bombs that have killed scores of U.S. troops.

Not to mention the adverse effect on gas mileage.

I read an article on this recently. Forget where but it might have been the WSJ. This shortage of armored jeeps predates the Bush Administration. It was decided during the Clinton Administration that there was no tactical need for armored jeeps. Now there are armored jeeps being cranked out around the clock and being shipped over there as fast as we can make them. But you probably won't be reading that in this article.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

voting for it before voting against it, most likely.

[LibKill]

No slam at Bush, I'll be voting for him AGAIN.

However, we can do better by our brave troops. They deserve our best.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

That was the WSJ.

See Cold-War Thinking Prevented Vital Vehicle From Reaching Iraq

[Cannoneer No. 4]

So long as we do not allow the best to be the enemy of the good enough. We also run into a problem with getting everybody the best all at once. Do we issue the best to some units first and make othes wait, or do we not issue at all until we have enough for everybody?

[Cannoneer No. 4]

FM 55-30 Appendix O VEHICLE HARDENING

O-2. SANDBAGS. Sandbags are effective in reducing the effects of blasts, preventing fire from reaching the driver, and providing protection from small arms fire and fragmentation. Sandbags are usually readily available and do not permanently impair the flexibility of vehicles. Sandbags can easily be added or removed from the vehicle as the situation dictates. One drawback to using sandbags is that their weight limits the vehicle's capability to haul cargo

US Code: Title 18: Section 2388

(a) Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully makes or conveys false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States or to promote the success of its enemies; or Whoever, when the United States is at war, willfully causes or attempts to cause insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or willfully obstructs the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States, to the injury of the service or the United States, or attempts to do so - Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

[First_Salute]

Bump.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Sandbags are NOT useless.

[First_Salute]

Bush could raise a lot of money for armor by firing any among the hundreds of federal employees wasting the peoples' money.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

In another attack, insurgents fired two rocket-propelled grenades at a U.S. Stryker military vehicle on patrol in a western district, setting it on fire, witnesses said.

More blasts shook the Stryker, as its fuel tanks and ammunition exploded, but a U.S. military spokesman said there were no casualties.

[wyattearp]

My nephew recently went to Iraq. I tried to buy him body armor. His unit wouldn't allow any body armor that wasn't gov't issued, and they weren't issuing any. I tried to find out if there was some kind of armor that the Army would allow. Nope. If the unit didn't issue it, the men/women couldn't wear it. Period.

This is very, very wrong, folks. Three years ago you could blame this on Clinton. Not any more. We've had the White House and the House of Reps the entire time, and the Senate for part of it. There are NO excuses for improperly equipped troops. Not any more.

[Poodlebrain]

This is so much BS that it should not be an issue. The Army was never tasked with planning for or equipping for a prolonged occupation mission during the post-Cold War period. Hence it did not buy equipment for occupation duty. The armored versions of the HMMWV being purchased now are less suitable for most of the combat misssions that the Army planned for the HMMWV. It would be nice if the armored HMMWV's were additions to the unit MTOE's, but it is more likely they are replacements/substitutes for the unarmored varients.

[xkaydet65]

Let's dig up a bunch of M113s with Ma Deuces or 40mm grenade launchers. If they're not carrying a squad of troopers, only a driver and gunners then they can have some applique armor add ons for protection. They'd complement the Humvees and they're cheaper than Bradleys and more abundant than Strykers.