Yishai calls for Gibson's Jesus film to be banned in Israel

Haaretz Israel ^ | 26 February 2004 | Amiram Barkat

[adam_az]

I said chapter and verse.

You made the claim - back it up.

Post it, and post the website urls you referred to earlier. Oh, right... you won't because it was Stormfront or somesuch.

Jesus isn't mentioned in 106a, and neither is Mary. Instead, it's about a minor prophet named Bilaam who misused his knowledge and descended to being a soothsayer.

http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_106.html

Similarly, in 49b there is no mention of Christianity.

http://www.come-and-hear.com/yebamoth/yebamoth_49.html#PARTb

You might want to read this

http://www.strangersbible.com/talmudAntiHate.html

Which debunks the silliness you are promulgating.

BTW, I can't wait for the day your hatred gets the better of you and gets you zotted. You remind me of Illbay.

[rmlew]

I have spent a lot of time warnig the ADL for the last year.
I support the movie and hope that you enjoy it. I will see it Saturday night.

[rmlew]

I am well aware of Michael a Hoffman, Israel Shamir...
I just wanted Guillermo to fess up.

[NobleEagle2004]

This is what I don't understand if you are going to Ban Jesus from Israel (The movie the Passion) then why not ban Homosexuality, would you rather be a Christian or turn to salt..okay just talking out of frustration, But I don't understand people hating Jesus yet embracing the sin of immorality..

Their Doing The Same Once Again!
Barabbas or Yeshua!Barabbas!Barabbas!

[Salem]

"This thread is fascinating to me. Pardon me if I chime in with my 2 cents worth...."

Thanks, JM (Ping at 360). It's fascinating to me, too, and thanks for your kind words. I think both of us are viewing this in the same way. I have always felt it is an achievable goal for Christians and Jews, to discourse intelligently and professionally without either sacrificing their extremely cherished and deeply held principles and views. We are both in the crosshairs of militant Islam. No, it isn't always easy, but in the end, we are all in His Hands. Against the background of both communities ancient history, The Nation of Israel today holds much promise for the future.

Thanks Chris Talk for your input. You're a gold mine of information and wonderful to have on board.

"There is a great of warmth between Jews and Christians, between sincere Jews and sincere Christians that is.".

Thanks, Veronica, indeed!

Stand easy, Mr. Atos, my eloquent friend! Foxman will inevitably answer to the One Whose people he purports to represent. It is not an eventuality I would wish on anyone, especially if they are walking so carelessly.

We'll have to pray harder for that guy!  

If you'd like to be on or off this
Christian Supporters of Israel ping list,
please FR mail me. ~
    
There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had
spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. (Joshua 21:45)
Letter To The President In Support Of Israel ~
'Final Solution,' Phase 2 ~
Warnings ~

[Imal]

Apparently he's dumb enough to believe and parrot Nazi propaganda, but smart enough not to admit it.

Evil flourishes in the resulting void, and thus it persists.

[Zionist Conspirator]

"Guillermo" thinks the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) is unavailable for non-Jews to read and "Mr. Pink" thinks the Talmud gives detailed instructions on making dirty movies.

Anyone who thinks Geffen or Katzenberg or any other liberal in Hollywood is following the Talmud belongs in a lunatic asylum.

[Imal]

I also have to chime in with some bigtime dittos to your post. I would not want the attention I have paid to some of the lest savory posts on the thread to detract from my gratitude for some of the excellent contributions I have seen posted here.

I would also like to call attention to Yoni's (FReeper yonif's) excellent review, The Passion of the Christ: My Impressions, which eloquently captures a more rational Jewish response to the movie than has been forthcoming from more publicized sources.

Up until reading his review, I had tended to cut Abe Foxman and the ADL some slack, in light of the history behind passion plays, their own expertise on the topic of anti-Semitism and the important nature of their work.

Although I have not seen The Passion yet, Yoni's review has told me all I need to know to reject the ADL's response to the movie. It is hard for me to think of issues where I disagree with Yoni (there must be something, maybe "paper or plastic?"), I have tremendous respect for his opinions, and where he and the ADL may disagree, he gets my vote.

While I still want to see the movie before formalizing a "180" on it, Yoni's review leaves little doubt in my mind that I will have some crow to eat (might I win a Garofalo?) for giving the ADL more credence than it apparently deserves.

Chest beating and unwarranted cries of anti-Semitism bring discredit to all Jews, not just the ADL. Here's hoping the ADL will be more cautious in the future about defaming Jews themselves.

It pains me to consider what future problems may go unaddressed because the ADL cried "wolf" this time.

Finally, a heartfelt salute to the Christian Supporters of Israel from a Jewish supporter of Israel. We may differ in our theology, but I love you guys.

[DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet]

I did see it, and I thought it was a work of art. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did - thank you.

[American in Israel]

Israel, that great liberal democracy has censorship? Do they burn books too?

Nope, they don't burn book, almost never ban a film (porno is not suitable for theaters in civilized places), and do not blow up buses or malls. Like another poster said, that movie will be shown only in Israel out of all its neighbors.

Shas is an Ultra Orthodox political group, they make the lives of Christians hard over here, as The Christ is a direct conflict with The Rabbi as a worship figure. The same is the Pope.

Faces change, but the hearts of men are the same throughout time. The Leaders of Religion have always disliked Christ. When the owner of the vineyard shows up, you gotta pay your dues if you are a share cropper. Some would rather kill the owner than share the crop. But people tend to figure it out despite the Rebbi's and Reverends...

[American in Israel]

Does any self-respecting religious Jew claim that Abe Foxman, Jerrold Nadler, Shimon Peres and Edgar Bronfman speak for all Jews? Does Al Sharpton speak for Black America? "Leadership" does not equal "All". Such paranoia is not worthy of the great state of Israel.

Good point, but Shaas was voted out of power and does not speak for the great State of Israel anymore than the Green Party speaks for the United States. Over here it is a tempest in a teapot, other than two small articles on the side pages of the J-Post the Movie is not getting much discussion at all. There seem to be more pressing things to worry about.

Who gives a rip about some dude from Shaas saying the movie is bad when obviously he has not seen it. I tend to have little respect for knee-jerk reviewers opinions anyway.

[Quix]

SEVERAL OLD TESTAMENT BIBLE CODES have been found on Mel Gibson. They may be viewed at post #88 in this thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1086319/posts

[Uncle Jaque]

Re. Your percieved resistance of Jews to being "converted", I can both accept and respect that premise.

My understanding of the "Evangelical" Christian perspective, at least in regards to a large part of that theologically diverse Faith Community, however, is that there is not nor ever has there ever been any need for a Jew to "Convert" or renounce Judaisim at all in order to be "Saved".

It was to the Nation of Israel, after all, that Yeshua was sent, and it was G-d's (Not my usual way of invoking the Name of the Most Holy, BTW, but one which seems more acceptable to some) Chosen People to whom "The Arm of the Lord" (Is. 53) was extended.

Only by our mutual Creator's Grace are Gentiles offered the option of repentance of sin and deliverance through the redeeming blood of Christ, which was shed, if I read my Bible correctly, for all Humankind - but primarily for the seed of Israel.

It seems that among all who claim the Name of Christ, "Evangelicals" are perhaps the most aware of some Biblical precepts that other Followers might not have come to appreciate quite as clearly in the ecclesiastical fog of "tradition", dogma, and doctrine.

And one of those realities is that we, as Gentile believers, are "grafted" as it were, through no merit of our own, but by the Grace of G-d and the sacrificial Love of Yeshua, into the Spiritually aboriginal "Vine" of Israel's legacy and inheritance.

So when a Jew recognizes and accepts Yeshua as his or her Messhiah, as many in the days of his Earthly Ministry in fact did, he or she is not "converted", per se; they are "Completed"!

And although we don't hear much about it, a lot of them to this day are indeed doing just that.

If you have ever met someone brilliantly on fire for the Lord and His Kingdom, who radiates an aura of Holy Spirit "Dunamus" power that will about blow your sneakers off if you so much as get near them, and whose Love for G-d and compassion for others goes way beyond what most of us would consider "rational"...

Then perhaps you have met one of them.

As for all this bruhau in Israel; those guys don't seem to have learned much from the ADLs efforts here to squash the "Passion", as all of their angst and accusitions have only served to arouse the curiosity and interest of people who tend to be attracted to controversy - and I don't see Jews being any exception to that proclivity, really.
This howling of "anti-Semitism" may well initiate a desire to see for themselves what this is all about in folks who otherwise might not have the least bit of interest in the film.

And I would not be surprised (but would rejoice greatly) if many intelligent and Spiritually sensitive Jews who attend the "Passion" find themselves confronted not only by "our" Savior, but by their very own Messhiah, whom they may well come to recognize for the very first time.

Because as "Evangelical" Christians, one thing that we are pretty much on the same page about, is that they are indeed..

One and the Same.

And when the ancient schisims that have divided Jew and Christian, Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant for all these Centuries and Millennia are at last healed at the foot of that Old Rugged Cross...

The corner posts of the Earth will tremble, and all Hell will howl!

Amen?

Shalom!

[American in Israel]

Historically, the Torah was not generally made available for non-Jewish public consumption.

Historically the Bible was not made available for public consumption either. The text was kept in latin to keep the truth hidden. The invention of the printing press broke the yoke of the "Church Fathers" and broke the back of the inquisition. The Protestant reformation was the result in rejection of what the "Oral Traditions" made of the written word.

If I can make a touchy parallel, Messianic's are a type of Protestants of the Ultra Orthodox "Church Fathers". From my observation, the Written Oral traditions shred the Tanach, (the whole old testament, not just the first five books, the Torah), to a completely unrecognizable Religion that rejects the Wisdom of God for the Wisdom of men. Just like Early Catholicism shredded Christianity into Churchianity, Rabbinical Judaism has done the identical thing to Judaism. In the same light, the re-interpreted word is claimed by the Catholics as to being the "One True Church", so also the Rabbinical Judaists have claimed Judaism for themselves.

Thinking themselves as wise, they miss the point of the Scriptures entirely. God, who is not to be taken lightly, is still there, where the Church fathers all sleep as dust. When it is all over, and we all stand before God, nobody will be any different than anybody else, we all screwed it up the same way. Christians, who fly the flag up the pole to salute that they have it all right, along with Rabbinical Judiasts flying a different flag up the pole to salute both have it wrong. Both sides equally allowed the traditions of men to pollute the simple truth that is available to anyone who is willing to read the Bible, the WHOLE BIBLE, and to seek God with all their heart. Yes I believe Jesus, Yeshua was the first coming of the Messiah of the Jews. Yes I believe He died on the cross as the lamb of God as the Tanach describes, as the supplied sacrifice for sin, MY sin, as the Abraham sacrifice indicates. And yes I believe the Jews are the Chosen Children of the Living God, the family that the head thereof has adopted me at a great price to be a part of.

So my older brother does not understand that yet, and rejects me, so what? If his and my Father disagrees with him, in the end, the brother will understand, because the brother is not the Father, the Father is. My part is to serve the family anyway I can. I am the prodigal son.

So now I have placed myself outside both camps and am sure to be a target of both. I mean you no ill will, I love you both, but some day you all need to realize that there are not two camps here, just two sides of one big family. The two branches will become one tree, no matter how hard you struggle as it is Gods stated and intended purpose for this to happen. It is only the teachings of men that divide us, not the teachings of the Tanach.

[Piranha]

A Jew who accepts Jesus is universally regarded among Jews as having converted.

[American in Israel]

Give Alloute a break, She did not cut and paste the crucifix on the Klansmen. The Nazi's wore "God is with us" belt buckles and sang Christmas Carols outside the Gas chambers as the Jews inside choked to death. Remember also that the Catholic Inquisition burned many Jews at the Stake in the name of Mary and the Christ.

She has a lot of disinformation by the enemy of God mixed into her perception of Christians. Who can blame her for being touchy on the subject? If you think antisemitism is bad now, how bad would it be if all the Christian symbols used by the enemy of God would have been Stars of David instead?

Heck, the world might actually have an excuse then. I am sure it was a tough decision for Satan, to choose between using crosses or stars on his shock troops. But the driving of the wedge between Jews and their Messiah was more important than adding further flames to the anti-Jewish fire. I am sure he figured out that he could add flames enough on his own.

To Allouete I would mention do not forget that many black Christians were slaughtered by the KKK, many Christians were killed by the Catholics for not worshiping Mary, and many Christians were killed in the Nazi gas chambers. Recognise the enemy, by his actions, not his uniform. Evil wears many guises. (very true on the local buses)

[Piranha]

I also consider myself to be quite far from "spiritually aboriginal", thank you.

[Piranha]

AI,

I was with you until you wrote that your "older brother" (I would guess that you mean the Jews) "rejects" you.

I think that you seriously underestimate the respect and gratitude that traditional Jews have for religious Christions -- at least of the non-proselytising kind. Not only because of your love of Israel, but because of your moral values and your recognition that good and evil are real, and not childish allegories.

Imagine that -- a Jew telling a Christian that he has a persecution complex!

[rmlew]

What are you, a Karaite?

[bonfire]

"LOL,
To listen to them cary on you would think that a bunch of Finnish Samoans did it, while all the Jews were on vacation [in Boca perhaps?]"


My head has been splitting all day and now it hurts worse from laughing!!!! lol!