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EDITORIAL: Tax `loopholes'
Las Vegas Review-Journal ^ | February 16, 2004 | editorial staff

Posted on 02/17/2004 7:11:48 AM PST by ancient_geezer

EDITORIAL: Tax `loopholes'

Most Americans this time of year begin addressing the matter of filing their tax returns. Meanwhile, some members of Congress discussing taxes remain blind to the forest as they stare down a tree.

On Friday, Senate Budget Committee chairman Don Nickles, an Oklahoma Republican, decried the myriad tax "loopholes" that he called a "shell game" and argued the budget deficit could be reduced if lawmakers addressed the issue by amending the tax code.

Among the items he cited were incorrect payments made under the Earned Income Tax Credit, which provides a subsidy to poor families who don't pay income taxes in the first place, and a complicated corporate write-off involving municipal public works projects.

All well and good.

Lost in all the debate, however, is the obvious notion that all these "loopholes" are the result of the overly complex and virtually incomprehensible tax laws under which Americans now toil.

Virtually every member of Congress -- both Republican and Democrat -- pay homage to tax simplification when it suits their purposes. The issue, though, never gains serious traction, as muddying up the tax code is not only a means for Democrats to redistribute wealth and gain votes, but for all lawmakers to gin up campaign contributions that help perpetuate their own existences.

Just keep rearranging the deck chairs, Sen. Nickles.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: axixofevil; donnickles; loopholes; taxes; taxreform
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Time to end the shell games.
1 posted on 02/17/2004 7:11:49 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: *Taxreform; Taxman; Principled; Bigun; EternalVigilance; kevkrom; n-tres-ted; Poohbah; CliffC; ...
A Taxreform bump for you all.

If you would like to be added to this ping list let me know.

John Linder in the House & Saxby Chambliss Senate, offer a comprehensive bill to kill all income and payroll taxes outright, and provide a IRS free replacement in the form of a pure consumption tax:

H.R.25
SPONSOR: Rep Linder, John (introduced 01/7/2003)
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

S.1493
Sponsor: Sen Chambliss, Saxby [GA] (introduced 7/30/2003)
Title: A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

Refer: http://www.fairtax.org & http://www.salestax.org

So Ron Paul's amendment has a chance at enactment & ratification:

H.J.RES.15
Sponsor: Rep Paul, Ron [TX-14] (introduced 1/28/2003)
Title: Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relative to abolishing personal income, estate, and gift taxes and prohibiting the United States Government from engaging in business in competition with its citizens.

(But lets modified it to prohibit all income, payroll, gift estate taxes as HR25 calls for, or we will see European VAT style hidden taxes along with payroll excises to take over in the place of the of the current individual income tax(i.e. personal income tax) that Ron Paul amendment prohibits.)

2 posted on 02/17/2004 7:13:19 AM PST by ancient_geezer (Equality, the French disease: Everyone is equal beneath the guillotine.)
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To: ancient_geezer
What a great rant! I like it...
3 posted on 02/17/2004 7:43:26 AM PST by EternalVigilance (An income tax is like a cowpie...Flatten it, and it's still a cowpie...)
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To: ancient_geezer
Time to end alot of the nonsense in the tax laws. Congress has subsidized the Accounting Business far too long.

The tax laws are blatantly stupid, mystically confusing, and a product of infantile congressional logic. A direct sales tax, or a direct income percentage tax would eliminate all the shenannigans, there would be no file dates, forms to fill out and taxpayers to hound. Those that had special needs, or the "poor" would be easily taken in by exemptions that they would apply for.

The tax system is stupid, designed by such.

Blessings, Bobo
4 posted on 02/17/2004 8:39:21 AM PST by bobo1
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To: bobo1
I agree we should simplify our tax system. However, the complication of any tax system will begin when Congress starts with the definition of the item, transaction or concept being taxed. Even with a flat income tax you still have to define income, and Americans have been arguing over that definition since the 16th Amendment was declared ratified.
5 posted on 02/17/2004 8:45:24 AM PST by Poodlebrain
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To: ancient_geezer
Time to end the shell games.

A M E N ! ! ! LONG past time really.

There is simply NO reason the United States of American cannot collect tax revenue in a straight forward, honest, and transparent manner and without the need for knowing even the names of individual taxpayers. No reason, that is, save those in Washington who benefit greatly from the CURRENT Marxist system!

6 posted on 02/17/2004 10:06:10 AM PST by Bigun (IRSsucks@getridof it.com)
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To: Bigun
A M E N ! ! ! LONG past time really. There is simply NO reason the United States of American cannot collect tax revenue in a straight forward, honest, and transparent manner and without the need for knowing even the names of individual taxpayers. No reason, that is, save those in Washington who benefit greatly from the CURRENT Marxist system!

Tell us how you really feel.... :)

Seriously, though, a national retail sales tax is not only much simpler than an income tax system, it's also much more consistent with the idea of a free society -- taxes become anonymous, there is no personally-conducted financial audit (filing a tax return) involved, and most importantly, the system adheres to the principle that the person who makes the money has first claim on how it is spent.

7 posted on 02/17/2004 3:19:44 PM PST by kevkrom (Ask your Congresscritter about his or her stance on HR 25 -- the NRST)
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To: ancient_geezer
The real issue is FReedom!

Under the National Retail Sales Tax, all Americans would be FRee to work, earn, save and invest without the heavy and greedy hand of government interfering in their lives.

And the NRST is just for starters, folks. We gotta whole lotta work to do if we want to ever be a truly FRee people again.

This year, as you are sweating over your tax return, I'd suggest you contemplate your life as it would be without an income tax and an IRS -- a life you could live to the fullest, and an April 15th as just another Nice Spring Day.
8 posted on 02/17/2004 6:28:04 PM PST by Taxman
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To: ancient_geezer
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but it seems that the only way money can be worth anything with income tax rates as they are is if the money can be quickly (1) moved into a "tax loophole", or (2) moved overseas. Any money which stays in circulation otherwise will be quickly gobbled up by the taxman. After all, if a company takes in $1, what can it do with it?
  1. Pay an employee, in which case the government grabs a third and the employee has to do something with it (see below).
  2. Buy some goods or services from another company, in which case this part loops without additional taxes (yet).
  3. Buy some goods or services from overseas, in which case the money is out of reach of the taxman (YEAH!).
  4. Declare it as kept profit in which case the taxman grabs a chunk.
  5. Send it out as dividends, in which case the recipients will have to do something with it (see below). BTW, what's the current dividend-tax situation?
When an individual gets $1, what can he do with it?
  1. Pay a business in exchange for a good or service (proceed to table #1).
  2. Pay another individual in exchange for a good or service (likely having to pay tax, at least legally).
  3. Put it in a tax shelter.
  4. Send it overseas away from the taxman.
It seems to me that the only ways money can escape the taxman are through tax shelters or loopholes, and through overseas investments and expenditures. Am I missing something?
9 posted on 02/17/2004 7:00:03 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: kevkrom
Seriously, though, a national retail sales tax is not only much simpler than an income tax system, it's also much more consistent with the idea of a free society -- taxes become anonymous, there is no personally-conducted financial audit (filing a tax return) involved, and most importantly, the system adheres to the principle that the person who makes the money has first claim on how it is spent.

Additionally, unlike most other current taxes, it would not tax domestic liquidity, nor would it put domestic industries at a competitive disadvantage compared to foreign ones.

10 posted on 02/17/2004 7:01:45 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: supercat; Taxman; kevkrom
nor would it put domestic industries at a competitive disadvantage compared to foreign ones.

In fact would move our trade towards a decided advantage in our own nation.

With the repeal of income/payroll taxes producer prices can fall 22% due to the cost savings in our domestic businesses, while all imports which normally are only nominally taxed are for the first time placed on even ground with our own industries when the NRST is levied on sale of imports in the US.

The net result, nearly a full 50% change in relative pricing of domestic products over imports in comparison with todays situation.

That is why:

Rep. Bill Archer, Chairman, House Ways and Means Committee:

That is how to bring our dollars back to the United States my friend.

11 posted on 02/17/2004 8:47:24 PM PST by ancient_geezer (Equality, the French disease: Everyone is equal beneath the guillotine.)
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To: ancient_geezer
And, I hasten to add, American jobs!
12 posted on 02/18/2004 6:25:20 AM PST by Taxman
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To: Taxman

This year, as you are sweating over your tax return, I'd suggest you contemplate your life as it would be without an income tax and an IRS -- a life you could live to the fullest, and an April 15th as just another Nice Spring Day.

 

Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratifying Convention June 12, 1788:

Seems something was forgotten when taxation became the preferred vehicle for political and social control not revenue collection, through the income tax system.

13 posted on 02/18/2004 2:28:41 PM PST by ancient_geezer (Equality, the French disease: Everyone is equal beneath the guillotine.)
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To: ancient_geezer
On Friday, Senate Budget Committee chairman Don Nickles, an Oklahoma Republican, decried the myriad tax "loopholes" that he called a "shell game" and argued the budget deficit could be reduced if lawmakers addressed the issue by amending the tax code.

No $H** Sherlock, if government starts taxing these tax-free 'foundations', they are going to rake in taxes by the TRILLIONS!!!!

14 posted on 02/18/2004 2:34:45 PM PST by Paul C. Jesup
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To: ancient_geezer
ancient_geezer wrote:
Seems something was forgotten when taxation became the preferred vehicle for political and social control not revenue collection,
And just how does changing from a tax system based on income taxes to a tax system based on sales taxes fix this problem.

The problem is that Congress manipulates whatever tax code we have for social and political control. The fact that many of the co-sponsors of the fair tax also vote for many (most) of the (thousands of) changes in the current system shows that they are a big part of the social engineering problem.

A screwed up, incomprehensible sales tax system is just as bad as a screwed up, incomprehensible income tax system.

15 posted on 02/18/2004 2:42:59 PM PST by cc2k
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To: cc2k
Point taken, cc2k.

But, it is well to remember that it took 90 years for us to get where we are with the present code.

Let us start over now with a simple, fair, flat National Retail Sales Tax and then hold the politician's feet to the fire just a little bit closer than our fellow citizens did between 1913 and 2004!

By the time the National Retail Sales Tax becomes a "screwed up, incomprehensible sales tax system," we'll long be dead. It is up to us to change it and up to the generations that follow us to keep it simple!
16 posted on 02/18/2004 3:26:21 PM PST by Taxman
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To: ancient_geezer
Yup. The income tax system really is not about raising money for the legitimate functions of government.

Time for a change?

I am reminded that politicians need to be changed as often as baby diapers, and generally for the same reasons!
17 posted on 02/18/2004 3:29:34 PM PST by Taxman
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To: Taxman
Taxman wrote:
Let us start over now with a simple, fair, flat National Retail Sales Tax and then hold the politician's feet to the fire just a little bit closer than our fellow citizens did between 1913 and 2004!
What worries me is that between the "Tax Simplification Act" of 1986 and now, February of 2004, there have been thousands of changes to the tax code. I think the total number of changes in that period is over 6,000 (but I could be off a little).

That means, if we adopt the fair tax system, we can reasonably expect that there will be at least 5,000 (maybe more) changes to the sales tax code in the next 15-20 years. Most of those changes will be of a "social engineering" nature, trying to encourage the purchase of some goods, and discouraging the purchas of other goods. Others will be "stick it to the rich" changes that place higher taxes on "luxury" items. Imagine the complexity and compliance costs associated with that. It'll take supercomputers in the stores just to figure out the taxes on your purchases when you check out.

Taxman wrote:
By the time the National Retail Sales Tax becomes a "screwed up, incomprehensible sales tax system," we'll long be dead.
I'm sorry to hear that you have such a quick acting, terminal illness. However, I am quite healthy, and I plan to be around for a few more years (a few decades if I'm lucky).

I'll agree that our current system is unwieldy and unworkable. I'm all for some changes to make that better. But, still, I have 4 main objections to the Fair Tax as it has been proposed.

This is my first major objection. There's no way that the lobbyists and the social engineers are going to vanish when (if?) the Fair Tax passes. And after the 5,000th "improvement" (social engineering amendment) to the sales tax code, I doubt it will be much more fair than what we have today in the income tax.

My other major objections are:

One more thing, I don't think the "Fair Tax" supporters have completely analyzed some of the unintended consequences of this proposal. For example, if I'm a self employed small business owner, and I want to buy an automobile today that I will primarily use for business purposes, I would probably buy it in the name of my business. By doing that, I can take depreciation on the vehicle as a business expense, and I can also write off maintenance and operating expenses as business expenses. By purchasing the vehicle in the name of the business, I avoid paying FICA, Self Employment and Income taxes on the money I spend on the vehicle.

Under the "Fair Tax", my business would have to pay federal sales tax on the vehicle (unless my business is to resell it), and on all maintenance and operating supplies and services. On the other hand, under the "Fair Tax", there's no tax disadvantage to paying myself a bonus or giving myself a raise to cover the cost of the vehicle. And, there's a Social Security advantage to increasing my salary to cover the cost of the vehicle, because ultimately, my Social Security benefits will be based on my reported "wages and salary". So, buying the vehicle personally will put more money in my pocket in the long run (and hasten the fall of the Social Security scheme). One unintended consequence of the Fair Tax is that it could make things much worse for Social Security in the long term.

This is just one reasonably foreseeable unintended consequence, just as the collapse of the commercial real estate market and subsequent S&L problems were reasonably foreseeable unintended conseqences of the 1986 Tax Simplification Act. I'm sure there are other unintended side effects of the "Fair Tax", but I haven't really given them that much thought. What concerns me is that "Fair Tax" supporters haven't given them much thought either.

18 posted on 02/19/2004 6:06:04 AM PST by cc2k
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To: cc2k; ancient_geezer
Noted. I'll respond later today to your comments.

In the meantime, go to

http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/industry_impact.html

and read their research papers. They may be able to answer a few of your questions and concerns.

Geezer, you want to tackle thisun?
19 posted on 02/19/2004 7:52:53 AM PST by Taxman
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To: cc2k

That means, if we adopt the fair tax system, we can reasonably expect that there will be at least 5,000 (maybe more) changes to the sales tax code in the next 15-20 years.

Remember the retail sales tax is on all new products across the board no exceptions. Any change to the formula means either a higher tax rate on every thing else, or a taxcut for everyone.

Secondly, the income tax complexity arises for the fact that income is not everything a person may receive, capital investment must be removed from receipts to calculate "income", (i.e. gain to be taxed). The opportunities for such monkeying in a "RETAIL" sales tax is quite limited, for in an income tax deductibility in defining income is the name of the game. The whole retail price of a product for sale is not subject to the kind of piece-meal deductibility that an income tax inherently promotes.

Most of those changes will be of a "social engineering" nature, trying to encourage the purchase of some goods, and discouraging the purchas of other goods.

Same reasoning applies, remove some goods necessitates raising the very visible rate on everything else. Also imposes sever accounting problems that are demonstably resisted by business in current retail tax systems. Merely removing the tax from some items means lower tax revenues to government and a taxbreak to citizens. Not a bad thing at all.

Imagine the complexity and compliance costs associated with that. It'll take supercomputers in the stores just to figure out the taxes on your purchases when you check out.

Which is why of the 45 states that have retail sales taxes such has been successfully resisted and has never become a substantive practice. All you end up with in your scenario is the evolution to what already exists in the plethora of excise taxes that both the federal government and states levy today. I haven't noticed any trend in that to become the kind of monster you suggest.

20 posted on 02/19/2004 9:02:05 AM PST by ancient_geezer (Equality, the French disease: Everyone is equal beneath the guillotine.)
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