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Homeless man's pastor told police of assault [rapist used library computers to view porn]
Phila. Inquirer ^
| 2/10/04
| Natalie Pompilio, Thomas J. Gibbons Jr. and Jacqueline Soteropoulos
Posted on 02/10/2004 7:11:24 AM PST by Antoninus
Homeless man's pastor told police of assault
Hours after police say he attacked an 8-year-old girl, Brian McCutcheon called his minister for guidance.
Brian McCutcheon called his pastor Saturday night and told him that he had done something bad, something he was ashamed about. He needed to talk.
Then the pastor saw news reports of the attack at a Center City library, in which an 8-year-old girl was beaten, sexually assaulted, and left unconscious behind a toilet.
"My heart was just ripped out," said Richard Knox, who ministers to the homeless with Fellowship Tabernacle Community Church in North Philadelphia. "I knew right off the bat it was him."
With Knox by his side, McCutcheon, 23, surrendered to Philadelphia police Sunday and was charged with attempted rape and attempted murder in the attack at the Free Library of Philadelphia's Independence Branch. Yesterday, bail commissioner Patrick Stack set McCutcheon's bail at $1 million.
It was not the first time McCutcheon had appeared in court. In June 2001, he pleaded guilty to misdemeanor simple assault in a similar case involving a 9-year-old girl.
And it was not the first time McCutcheon had caused trouble at a city library. Last year, he was banned from the library's Central Branch. Library director Elliot Shelkrot said McCutcheon was asked to leave because he used the computers to look at pornography. [bold mine]
A library employee who asked that her name not be used for fear of repercussions said McCutcheon was often disruptive in the library, yelling and using foul language when librarians told him he had used his 30-minute allotted time on the public computers. He looked mostly at pornography, she said, and officials banned him from the library only after he exposed himself to a 16-year-old library assistant. [bold mine]
In the earlier assault, McCutcheon found his victim in the women's bathroom of the Venice Island Recreation Center on Cotton Street in Manayunk on July 7, 2000.
"She went to the bathroom and he came in after that, pulled her bathing suit down, and tried to choke her," said the victim's mother, Wendy Riley of Manayunk. "She screamed and he ran out."
McCutcheon was arrested almost immediately as he walked away on Green Lane, Riley said. He was charged with aggravated assault and related crimes.
But because the victim could not positively identify McCutcheon as her attacker, prosecutors cut a deal, allowing him to plead guilty to lesser charges.
"We just didn't want to risk him just walking away from the courtroom" with no supervision or conviction, said Assistant District Attorney Sybil Murphy. "Getting some supervision for this guy was paramount to the mother, and paramount to me."
She added: "None of us were happy or even satisfied" with the plea.
McCutcheon, who had already served 111/2 months in jail and on house arrest awaiting trial, was eventually released. He was ordered to have no contact with his victim, who saw her attacker's face for the first time in years on TV Sunday night.
"I was shocked," the girl said yesterday.
The shock waves from Saturday's assault reverberated from the mayor's office to the streets of Chinatown, where the victim lives. Mayor Street ordered a security review of the library system, spokeswoman Barbara Grant said.
"We're going to do everything reasonable, and some things that are unreasonable, to make sure they're safe," Grant said.
Chinatown residents such as Wiem Liang, 40, were angry that the defendant was in the library on Saturday instead of in jail.
"If it were China - bang! We would kill him. Then he wouldn't do it again," Liang said. [bold mine]
Meanwhile, officials from other area facilities, including the Franklin Institute and the Philadelphia Museum of Art, said they were confident that current security procedures provided a safe environment for visitors.
Vincent Thompson, a spokesman for the Philadelphia School District, said officials were reminding employees to monitor hallways, doorways, and children going to and from bathrooms.
The Independence Branch opened at 2 p.m. yesterday, two hours later than usual, so Shelkrot could talk to the staff. An extra security guard was on duty, sitting near the double doors that led to a small hallway and the bathrooms within. The key, normally kept at the front desk, was in the guard's pocket; he unlocked the door for patrons needing a restroom.
"People feel terrible, and everyone is wondering what could they have done differently," Shelkrot said.
On Saturday afternoon, the 8-year-old victim, accompanied by her grandmother and two other children, ages 3 and 4, visited the Independence Branch, near Seventh and Market Streets, police said. Sometime between 4:15 and 4:30 p.m., she went alone into the women's restroom.
There, police said, McCutcheon ripped off the child's clothing, sexually assaulted and choked her, then jammed her body between the toilet and the wall. Another child found her a short time later. Library employees immediately called police.
The girl was in critical but stable condition last night at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia.
A few hours after the attack, Knox said, McCutcheon called and left a message. He called again a short time later. Knox said he answered, and McCutcheon told him he was in trouble.
"He said, 'I'm afraid to go into it, but it happened down at the library, the city library,' " Knox said.
The pastor met McCutcheon a few years ago though the church's outreach program. McCutcheon came to Philadelphia in 2000, wandering east after spending time in Texas and Colorado, Knox said.
"He's very easygoing, but he is prone to explode, which I've never seen him do, but he often told me about it," Knox said. "He was mad that he was homeless and things like that."
Knox told McCutcheon to meet him Sunday at a McDonald's in North Philadelphia. When Knox learned of the attack on Saturday, he called police.
The next day, Knox met McCutcheon. The homeless man's clothing was dirty and he "just looked down, really down." He carried a duffel bag containing a blanket and told Knox he had slept inside Suburban Station.
Knox said that he urged McCutcheon to turn himself in, and that the homeless man said he would if Knox stayed with him. "He said he needed help," Knox said. "He said he threw his life away."
Once in custody, McCutcheon was treated gently by officers, Knox said, and "it was just very professional. They handled him with care."
While giving his statement, Knox said, McCutcheon "broke down crying. He was just devastated by what he did, but he knew he had to pay the price. He wanted to apologize to everyone because he felt he let the entire ministry down. I told him, 'Just deal with it. We'll continue.'
"It made my job easier that he was remorseful. If he'd been cold-blooded, it would have been a whole different story."
Knox prayed with McCutcheon in his cell before leaving him Sunday. But Knox also said he had problems sleeping because of fears about his own daughters, ages 8 and 14.
"My heart is broken for the young lady. She will be scarred for the rest of her life," Knox said. "And he's a young man who threw his life away. He's a perfect example of what a hopeless life can do to a young man. Where there is no light, there's darkness."
TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: ala; brian; homeless; library; mccutcheon; pedophilia; playboyculture; porn; pornography; rapist
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"People feel terrible, and everyone is wondering what could they have done differently," Shelkrot said.
Hello! How about NO PORN IN PUBLIC LIBRARIES!
1
posted on
02/10/2004 7:11:34 AM PST
by
Antoninus
To: Antoninus
Liang said "If it were China, bang! He'd be dead and he wouldn't do it again." It's not often that I agree with anything done in China, but in this case America would be better off with this philosophy on Child Rapists. I say castrate him and put in Jail with BIG BUBBA and let him live the life that he's put this child through. What a piece of $hit!
2
posted on
02/10/2004 7:18:55 AM PST
by
HELLRAISER II
(Give us another tax break Mr. President)
To: Antoninus
""If it were China - bang! We would kill him. Then he wouldn't do it again," Liang said."
Just rub it in our faces why don't you! Its sad that Communist China has better enforcement of their laws than we do.
3
posted on
02/10/2004 7:19:15 AM PST
by
ConservativeMan55
(You...You sit down! You've had your say and now I'll have mine!!!!)
To: Antoninus
A library employee who asked that her name not be used for fear of repercussions said McCutcheon was often disruptive in the library, yelling and using foul language when librarians told him he had used his 30-minute allotted time on the public computers. He looked mostly at pornography, she said, and officials banned him from the library only after he exposed himself to a 16-year-old library assistant.If not for porn, this man would doubtless have been a minister or Fortune 500 CEO.
4
posted on
02/10/2004 7:24:39 AM PST
by
Deliberator
(</sarcasm>)
To: Lancey Howard; cyborg; rmmcdaniell; COEXERJ145; dagnabbit; farmfriend; Cindy; thoughtomator; ...
"porn is harmless" bump.
5
posted on
02/10/2004 7:26:36 AM PST
by
Antoninus
(In hoc signo, vinces †)
To: Deliberator
If not for porn, this man would doubtless have been a minister or Fortune 500 CEO.
If not for easy access to porn in this library, a little girl might not be in critical condition, scarred for the rest of her life.
6
posted on
02/10/2004 7:29:16 AM PST
by
Antoninus
(In hoc signo, vinces †)
To: Antoninus
"He said he needed help," Knox said. "He said he threw his life away."HIS life? He stuffed a 8 year-old life behind a toilet after violently assulting her, and he needs help? The child is in critical condition.
He was worried about his monstrous sin after he'd spent all that time in a public library reading porn sites getting worked up for it.
That beast needed being committed and a real exorcism.
7
posted on
02/10/2004 7:31:31 AM PST
by
xJones
To: Antoninus
Surprise, surprise, surprise.....!
No, pornography probably did not cause this guy to be a sexual predator. The use of pornography, like the attack itself, was just an expression of an underlying issue.
But pornography probably did get him into a state where "a little relief" sounded like just the thing for him. And, as somebody pointed out yesterday, the fact that the guy is homeless is already a good indication that he does not have good control over his impulses.
Can't wait for our libertinians to show up in defense of pornography....
8
posted on
02/10/2004 7:32:28 AM PST
by
r9etb
To: Antoninus
He looked mostly at pornography, she said, and officials banned him from the library only after he exposed himself to a 16-year-old library assistant.Surprise, surprise.
As long as you can keep from "exposing" yourself to children, the librarians love people to come into their free libraries and help themselves to the internet pornography.
To: r9etb
No, pornography probably did not cause this guy to be a sexual predator. The use of pornography, like the attack itself, was just an expression of an underlying issue. [...]Can't wait for our libertinians to show up in defense of pornography....
Do pornography "defenders" say any more than you did?
To: Antoninus
If not for easy access to porn in this library, a little girl might not be in critical condition, scarred for the rest of her life. We should let him go, in that case - obviously, it's the porn's fault, not his.
11
posted on
02/10/2004 7:37:04 AM PST
by
general_re
(Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.)
To: Deliberator
He read mostly porn sites in a library and guess where that little girl was assulted.
Motive and the innocent little opportunity walked into the bathroom. Why did he have the right to read porn sites in a public library?
12
posted on
02/10/2004 7:39:41 AM PST
by
xJones
To: Antoninus
If not for easy access to porn in this library, a little girl might not be in critical condition, scarred for the rest of her life.Certainly public monies should not be spent to provide free porn to a largely deranged subpopulation.
To: Antoninus
You know, this is all George Bush's fault.... ;)
14
posted on
02/10/2004 7:40:06 AM PST
by
adam_az
(Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting weftists.)
To: ConservativeMan55
Just rub it in our faces why don't you! Its sad that Communist China has better enforcement of their laws than we do. China would have drowned her shortly after birth in a rice paddy - dont kid yourself
To: xJones
Why did he have the right to read porn sites in a public library?He didn't---or shouldn't.
To: Antoninus
"If not for easy access to porn in this library, a little girl might not be in critical condition, scarred for the rest of her life."
I think you are substituting another symptom of his being already deranged rather than the cause. Don't you think he would be just as dangerous without internet access?
17
posted on
02/10/2004 7:41:26 AM PST
by
adam_az
(Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting weftists.)
To: Lancey Howard
The idea that ANYONE considers the viewing of internet pornography to be an appropriate use of library computers is simply mind-boggling to me.
Yet that, apparently, is the ALA's position, is it not? "No, no, no, we can't forbid a vagrant from his allotted 1/2 hour of free porn at the library--that would be censorship."
We are becoming a nation of politically correct sissy-boys.
18
posted on
02/10/2004 7:41:32 AM PST
by
Antoninus
(In hoc signo, vinces †)
To: Antoninus
Yes, that would fall among the "reasonable" things that we can do, and one of the first and easiest ones at that. Problem is, the Left is so damnably UNreasonable about sound limitations on civil liberties.
19
posted on
02/10/2004 7:43:21 AM PST
by
Paul_B
To: general_re
We should let him go, in that case - obviously, it's the porn's fault, not his.
Try not to get an eye-cramp misreading what I read. If there was no internet porn available in the library, this deviant scum would have had to go elsewhere for his "jollies." Not in a public library which used to be a place considered SAFE for children.
20
posted on
02/10/2004 7:44:16 AM PST
by
Antoninus
(In hoc signo, vinces †)
To: Antoninus
Attacks on children and staff at libraries specifically connected to unfiltered Internet access there have been happening on a regular basis for years...
The ALA ordered members to STOP KEEPING RECORDS because those records were being used to support arguments in favor of filtering taxpayer funded Internet access.
The ALA and ACLU have been fighting ferociously to make communities pay for and provide 100% unrestricted, taxpayer sponsored Internet access to every site possibly available no matter how illegal the material is that is being accessed. The current policies of "tapping" a patron on the shoulder if someone complains about seeing porn on the computer is ineffective and has been leading to other patrons and children viewing porn by accident, forced to by perverts deliberately leaving it on the monitor or by their leaving pictures at the printer, and there have been numerous incidents of pedophiles exposing themselves to kids.
---
This is excellent research compiled by a previous librarian who has been fighting this issue since the mid-90's.
http://latimes.findlaw.com/supreme_court/briefs/02-361/02-361.mer.ja3.html Dangerous Access, 2000 Edition:
Uncovering Internet Pornography in America's Libraries
By David Burt
(c) 2000 by the Family Research Council
21
posted on
02/10/2004 7:45:36 AM PST
by
Tamzee
(EARTH FIRST!!! We'll stripmine the other planets later...)
To: adam_az
I think you are substituting another symptom of his being already deranged rather than the cause. Don't you think he would be just as dangerous without internet access?
Of course he would. But he would have had to have gone somewhere else (not the public library for heaven's sake!) to get his jollies. And I think most of you are aware that there aren't many 8-year-old girls at adult theaters and the usual haunts that these ghouls frequent.
22
posted on
02/10/2004 7:46:50 AM PST
by
Antoninus
(In hoc signo, vinces †)
To: Antoninus
Try not to get an eye-cramp misreading what I read. I don't know what you read, only what you wrote. And porn or not, library or not, the guy was obviously a time-bomb waiting to go off. Ban porn from the library if you like - the next deviant scum will do it in a department store or at the playground or in the locker room at the public pool, because making porn leave the library will not make deviant scum leave the planet. And that's a fact.
23
posted on
02/10/2004 7:48:33 AM PST
by
general_re
(Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.)
To: Antoninus
"My heart was just ripped out," said Richard Knox, who ministers to the homeless with Fellowship Tabernacle Community Church in North Philadelphia. "I knew right off the bat it was him." With Knox by his side, McCutcheon, 23, surrendered to Philadelphia police Sunday and was charged with attempted rape and attempted murder in the attack at the Free Library of Philadelphia's Independence Branch. Yesterday, bail commissioner Patrick Stack set McCutcheon's bail at $1 million. One good thing you can say about this pastor is he did not hear the confession and keep it hidden.
Hello! How about NO PORN IN PUBLIC LIBRARIES!
I concur. Either that or no public libraries.
To: Antoninus
he would have had to have gone somewhere else (not the public library for heaven's sake!) to get his jollies. And I think most of you are aware that there aren't many 8-year-old girls at adult theaters and the usual haunts that these ghouls frequent.Agreed.
To: general_re
because making porn leave the library will not make deviant scum leave the planet.
If it gives them a disincentive to visit a public library, that's good enough for me at this point. As it is, having access to porn at public libraries makes them a magnet for such scum--and therefore makes them unsafe for women or children.
If you want to view porn (repugnant and pathetic as it is), do it at home. If you don't have a home, go to the "red light" district.
26
posted on
02/10/2004 7:54:15 AM PST
by
Antoninus
(In hoc signo, vinces †)
To: Antoninus
As it is, having access to porn at public libraries makes them a magnet for such scum--and therefore makes them unsafe for women or children. You could just as easily say that having children at public playgrounds makes playgrounds magnets for scum. Perhaps we should eliminate them as well, as long as "safety" is going to trump all else.
27
posted on
02/10/2004 7:57:20 AM PST
by
general_re
(Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.)
To: adam_az
I think you are substituting another symptom of his being already deranged rather than the cause. Don't you think he would be just as dangerous without that internet access?
I understand your argument, but actually NO, he would NOT be as dangerous without internet access. Pedophiles have admitted (and to a great degree sex offenders in general) that the more porn they can view, the stronger their desires are to act out on deviant sexual urges. The more images of children they see in a sexual context, the greater their obsession is to actually molest a real child.
One famous case that is an example of this is Jeremy Strohmeyer, the man who killed 7 year old Sherrice Iverson in the casino bathroom about 5 years ago. He was involved with child pornography and, just prior to killing Sherrice, he told other members of a child porn site that he couldn't take it anymore and he had to get his hands on a "real girl".
Another case involving library Internet access specifically was Jeffrey Curley. His Charles Jaynes viewed the NAMBLA site at the Boston Public Library the very morning he kidnapped, molested and killed 10 year old Jeffrey, a neighborhood boy. Charles Jaynes wrote in his diary prior to this happening that NAMBLA helped him understand his real desires toward sexual relationships with children.
It is a point that pedophiles can buy their own computers and Internet access, but libraries make it much easier for sexual predators and deviants to access illegal sexual material that do make them more dangerous.
28
posted on
02/10/2004 7:58:55 AM PST
by
Tamzee
(EARTH FIRST!!! We'll stripmine the other planets later...)
Hang him by the b***s, until they fall off! I think every person that is convicted of assaults like these should be castrated. Then throw them in prison for life. There, they won't even be able to have fun by themselves. Sounds like good punishment to me. Life without "getting any" sounds like every mans worst nightmare.
To: general_re
Taxpayer funds are not used to stock library shelves with Playboy, Hustle or NAMBLA publications, and particularly not materials that promote gangrape and violence.
Taxpayer funds should not be used to provide that same material over library computer equipment.
30
posted on
02/10/2004 8:02:41 AM PST
by
Tamzee
(EARTH FIRST!!! We'll stripmine the other planets later...)
To: r9etb
No, pornography probably did not cause this guy to be a sexual predator. The use of pornography, like the attack itself, was just an expression of an underlying issue. But pornography probably did get him into a state where "a little relief" sounded like just the thing for him. And, as somebody pointed out yesterday, the fact that the guy is homeless is already a good indication that he does not have good control over his impulses.
bump for common sense. Also Libraries should NOT offer internet access. Just have computers that you can use to show where the books are. Nothing else. Too bad sickos like these ruin it for others but its the only method that won't tick off the ACLU communists.
31
posted on
02/10/2004 8:05:45 AM PST
by
KantianBurke
(Principles, not blind loyalty)
To: general_re
You could just as easily say that having children at public playgrounds makes playgrounds magnets for scum.
Your comparison is not valid as it lacks the catalyst that is access to porn and children in the same location. Your comparison would be valid if some nice old school marm were handing out free copies of Huslter at the playground. Would you send your kids to a playground where someone was handing out copies of Hustler?
Perhaps we should eliminate them as well, as long as "safety" is going to trump all else.
Hey, using that logic, we may as well set up "porn kiosks" in the recess yards at public schools and advertise them at the local adult book stores. Seeing as we're not concerned about the safety of kids....
Look, I agree that the libs use this "think of the children" nonsense to get all kinds of ludicrous things passed but open your eyes, man! An 8-year-old girl was raped by a sick deviant who was only in the library to view online porn!
32
posted on
02/10/2004 8:06:10 AM PST
by
Antoninus
(In hoc signo, vinces †)
To: Tamsey
Taxpayer funds should not be used to provide that same material over library computer equipment. I agree in principle, but unfortunately it's much easier to choose which publications one will subscribe to than it is to try guessing in advance which millions of the billions of webpages out there will be equally offensive.
33
posted on
02/10/2004 8:07:58 AM PST
by
general_re
(Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.)
I think that the death penalty for child molestation, and violent rape would do far more to prevent future cases than banning porn in libraries (or anywhere else for that matter).
Let's not get too distracted about the details of the case and let's not bother ranting about the cruel and unusual methods of torture some would like to inflict. This person has scarred two children for life, and if allowed to, will likely do it again. He has to go in the most efficient and humanitarian way possible. Don't get me me wrong, I don't care about the pain this piece of human excrement may feel, I'm worried about the type of person who would gleefully inflict it.
Another poster suggested a bullet to the back of the head. It's messy but effective. Personally I would suggest hanging. It's quick, to the point and the rope is reusable. No need to waste perfectly good bullets on scum like this.
34
posted on
02/10/2004 8:13:14 AM PST
by
Durus
To: Antoninus
Your comparison is not valid as it lacks the catalyst that is access to porn and children in the same location. "Catalyst"? So without the porn, this person never would have done what he did?
I know what you're saying, but I think you have some very fine hair-splitting ahead of you. Either he is responsible for what he did, or he isn't. Calling porn the "catalyst" is a mere short hop away from giving him a temporary vacation in a state mental hospital, rather than doing what we should do, which is lock him the hell up for the rest of his natural life. I'm not interested in giving the deviant scumbags of the world a ready-made excuse for why it's not their fault that they did some horrible thing, and that's the next step in this process. Blame the actor, not the incidentals, is my thinking here.
Look, I agree that the libs use this "think of the children" nonsense to get all kinds of ludicrous things passed but open your eyes, man! An 8-year-old girl was raped by a sick deviant who was only in the library to view online porn!
I understand that. Truly, I'm not insensitive to that at all - I have a daughter myself. But I don't want hasty half-baked "solutions" imposed, not without a careful look at the issues. And the major problem here is simply technological - the only way to positively eliminate internet porn from libraries is to eliminate the internet itself. Nothing less will suffice. And I'm not sure that the cost is worth it in that case.
35
posted on
02/10/2004 8:14:22 AM PST
by
general_re
(Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.)
To: general_re
Filtering programs do a pretty grand job of eliminating most of it... the programs aren't perfect, but the programs are still more generous with resources than the library bookshelves to begin with.
Two types of filtering....
1. White Listing - where someone reviews what is out there as widely as possible and chooses a selection they deem valuable enough to "stock".
2. Black Listing - where someone reviews what is out there as widely as possible and makes all of it available except particular items that fall outside of the standards set
There has been "library filtering" since we first set up public libraries.... the white filtering.... used to stock the book shelves.
36
posted on
02/10/2004 8:17:41 AM PST
by
Tamzee
(EARTH FIRST!!! We'll stripmine the other planets later...)
To: general_re
the only way to positively eliminate internet porn from libraries is to eliminate the internet itself
Incorrect. They can "whitelist" a selection of sites that the library provides access to and simply use the same standards they use to select books they put on the shelves. If a patron wishes to view a site not available, they can submit the request the same way a patron asks a library to purchase a book. It's a simple matter for a librarian to add a new site to be accessed via the filter.
They can handle internet sites EXACTLY the same way they have always handled books, magazines and newspapers.
37
posted on
02/10/2004 8:23:16 AM PST
by
Tamzee
(EARTH FIRST!!! We'll stripmine the other planets later...)
To: Tamsey
That's a pretty good idea.
To: Antoninus
I'm suprised the man was even reprimanded for viewing porn in a public library. Here in Sonoma County, CA, (a Democratic bastion) we have a real problem with this sort of behavior. The library system is run by a bunch of flaming liberals who cry "censorship" and "free-speech" whenever a group of people get together to try and put a stop to public displays of porn on the terminals.
A few years ago, I actually saw a man masturbating once at my local library in front of a computer screen. After that sleazy incident, I stopped bringing my son to the public library. If we have to, my son and I go to a local college library where public viewing of porn on the computers is forbidden because some feminist prof was offended and made a big stink. (Go figure. I guess she never saw the glorious Larry Flynt "biography" film.)
I'm sorry, but I don't count publicly displaying porn (which invaribly leads to a person getting aroused and acting on it) as "free speech." I believe porn is degrading to men and women because it cheapens their worth as husbands, sons, daughters, wives, and mothers.
Amazingly, there are plenty of FReepers who actually defend pornography as healthy. I have no problems with women in bathing suits, etc. But I am disgusted by the "Girls Gone Wild" mentality and the porn industry that exploits human beings as pieces of meat to be viewed, used and discarded by other human beings.
39
posted on
02/10/2004 8:33:03 AM PST
by
demnomo
To: demnomo
publicly displaying porn (which invaribly leads to a person getting aroused and acting on it)EVERY TIME a person sees porn he acts on it? What is your source for this surprising claim?
To: demnomo
C'mon. It's just yet another mere coincidence involving porn and sex crimes. < /sarcasm >
41
posted on
02/10/2004 8:37:20 AM PST
by
AppyPappy
(If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
To: Deliberator
Thanks!
Many librarians actually like the idea, too, but they can only talk about it in brief, fearful whispers unless they want to be drummed out of their profession by the brutes at ALA and ACLU :-(
42
posted on
02/10/2004 8:41:17 AM PST
by
Tamzee
(EARTH FIRST!!! We'll stripmine the other planets later...)
To: Tamsey
The difference between purchases and internet connectivity is, of course, that buying a particular book or subscribing to a particular magazine requires the specific expenditure of funds for that purchase, whereas with the internet, it's the decision
not to provide something that costs extra. Filtering isn't free, after all. And filtering puts editorial decisions back into the hands of the ALA minions we all love to hate so much. Everyone agrees that porn isn't what library computers are for, but we're leaving open the question of what they
are for. What happens when the library staff decides that library computers are for learning and education only, not political advocacy, and therefore, the online version of "Heather Has Two Mommies" is acceptable - teaches tolerance, after all - but FR isn't, being about political advocacy?
And neither type of filter is particularly useful or effective, really. With whitelisting, you may block all the porn in the world, to be sure, but you're inevitably going to block a great deal of stuff that's not porn as well - if nobody else anticipated your wants and needs, you won't get them filled. I can't tell you how many times I've gone off to Google to find information about some particular thing, and wound up learning about something completely different, that happens to be tangentially related to the original subject - a facility that will be destroyed by whitelisting. The whitelisters may anticipate that I would want to know about Denmark. They may anticipate that I want to know about furniture. But unless they knew in advance that I'm interested in 1950's-era Danish sofas and chairs, I'm likely to find the whitelist useless as a resource. And how would they know that I'm interested in it - I didn't know it when I sat down.
And blacklisting is simply an endless cat and mouse game. It doesn't prevent the problem, and it really doesn't even make it more difficult for anyone even minimally motivated. Name the filter, and I promise I'll find hundreds or thousands of offensive pages not blocked.
Want to know what the best solution is? Don't allow children to use the internet stations unsupervised without parent's permission. Then you arrange your computers so that everyone's monitor is easily viewable by everyone in the room, including the librarians. When people can't hide it, they won't generally do it. And the people who do it anyway, they're asked to leave and their computer privileges are revoked. End of story.
43
posted on
02/10/2004 8:45:06 AM PST
by
general_re
(Remember that what's inside of you doesn't matter because nobody can see it.)
To: Deliberator
Do pornography "defenders" say any more than you did? Wait and see....
44
posted on
02/10/2004 8:45:59 AM PST
by
r9etb
To: Antoninus
This guy needs to be freed from jail today.
And then hunted...
45
posted on
02/10/2004 8:54:36 AM PST
by
MikeWUSAF
(I am proudly featured on U.S. Rep Rob Portman's homepage: http://www.house.gov/portman/)
To: Antoninus
The idea that ANYONE considers the viewing of internet pornography to be an appropriate use of library computers is simply mind-boggling to me. I agree with you 100%. As far as free porn in libraries and that we do not have a say it that? Bulls&^t. Anyone who has a phone should check your bill. Notice anything under taxes and extra fees? There is a small charge there for internet funding for schools and libraries. Since we pay for the internet, I believe we have a say in what is shown and in what type of atmosphere.
This is just another example of liberals making everyone pay for their disgusting freedom of speech for their ilk.
46
posted on
02/10/2004 9:06:42 AM PST
by
New Perspective
(Proud father of a 2 month old son with Down's)
To: af_vet_1981
How about no internet access in public libraries...period.
To: Deliberator
Oh, give me a break. There's a reason for pornography and it ain't there for spiritual edification.
I'm not talking about paintings or photographs of men and women who happen to be naked. The kind of stuff that this cretin (and most other people who are into this kind of trash) was viewing was most probably hardcore and/or disgusting.
I think pornography is degrading and addictive. You believe otherwise. I am not going to lower myself and debate the subject with you...
48
posted on
02/10/2004 9:20:05 AM PST
by
demnomo
To: demnomo
EVERY TIME a person sees porn he acts on it? What is your source for this surprising claim?There's a reason for pornography and it ain't there for spiritual edification.
Of course---but that doesn't prove your claim. Porn users often, but not necessarily always, "act on" their excitement (usually, I expect, without the involvement of other persons).
I think pornography is degrading and addictive. You believe otherwise.
Wrong. When you assume, you make an ass of u not me.
To: general_re
NOT end of story, especially when I'm apparently dealing with someone unfamiliar with this topic and the issues involved.
1. Using a computer to view a porn site involves wear and tear on the components, electricity AND prevents other patrons from using that resource at that given time for a libraries real purpose.
2. Filters do NOT cost extra per site that they block, there is no additional charge to add a site will illegal content.
2. Editorial decisions have ALWAYS been in the hands of the library board, i.e. the community.
3. Whitelisting will lead, yes, to some good material not being offered to staff... in EXACTLY the same manner that libraries don't provide every good or valuable book out there, either. They provide a varied selection on each topic. Libraries don't know which BOOK you want on Denmark, either, it's not in the library mission to provide every book on Denmark that has been printed. Now THAT is a hefty sense of entitlement...
$. Name the filter? Bess offered by n2h2 solutions... 98% effective and currently the best rated filter as judged by a study commissioned by the Dept of Justice.
http://www.n2h2.com/products/bess.php?device=filtering_info "Want to know what the best solution is?" ..... prior to taking your kind advice in this matter, I suggest you read the reports at the site above.
Children using the library safely is only ONE part of the problem...... I don't want to pay tax dollars that provide bestiality, rape movies and child porn to the man that lives next door to me and my daughters. I don't believe our Founders intended this, either.
End of story.
50
posted on
02/10/2004 9:26:47 AM PST
by
Tamzee
(EARTH FIRST!!! We'll stripmine the other planets later...)
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