Call for 200mph railways

The Guardian ^ | Monday February 9, 2004 | Andrew Clark

[Willie Green]

For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.

Britain's busiest inter-city railways will be full by 2015 unless work begins urgently on continental-style high-speed tracks, says the government's key transport thinktank.

The Commission for Integrated Transport called on ministers to look beyond the present punctuality crisis and plan for a 200mph national infrastructure.

It backed a north-south link to allow travellers from London to reach Glasgow in three hours, Newcastle in two and Birmingham in 55 minutes.

Chairman Professor David Begg said: "There's been a lack of long-term planning in the past - that's what's got us into the present difficulties."

He said key links, including the east coast mainline from King's Cross to Yorkshire, the north-east and Edinburgh, would be full in 11 years at the present rate of growth in rail use. If, as expected, road pricing is introduced to encourage motorists to switch to public transport, the capacity crunch could come much earlier.

"In planning terms, it's not a million miles away," he said.

A new high-speed line could handle 220 services a day, compared to a maximum of 98 once the west coast mainline is upgraded. The longer trains could carry 50% more passengers.

The commission said the cost could be cut by building lines gradually and by avoiding the type of "gold plating" seen in elaborate stations on the Jubilee line extension.

The only line in Britain classified by the EU as "high speed" is the first stage of the channel tunnel rail link through Kent.

The transport department said the prospects for progress were remote, and put the cost of a London-to-Scotland line at up to £30bn, not £10bn as other experts say.

[blackdog]

200MPH railways = Mops and Spatulas

[Wright is right!]

England already has the densest rail concentration on the planet. If you can't get there by rail in England, you really don't want to go there. Most lines are electrified and your average train gallops along at 125 mph already.

Of course, there's the very high population density they have which makes rail work so well, and there isn't the "public transportation is for poor people" stigma that prevails in the US in much of the country.

Michael

[Wright is right!]

Adding to what I just posted, another reason rail works there is that the ROW was acquired so long ago and population grew up around it. They didnt have to acquire a lot of expensive real estate to build the network.

Michael

[Unam Sanctam]

I'm as capitalistic and anti-socialist as they come, but I do envy the British their comprehensive rail system. At one time, New England also had a comprehensive system that connected practically every town, but it was just too bad that the private railroads ran the passenger system to the ground in favor of freight during the 1960s. With clogged roads, New England could use a good passenger railroad system. I expect flames for this heresy.

[blackdog]

I rode commuting trains to and from school since the age of six. My rides to and from, injected me into the business commuter's arena even though I was a child. I learned about manners, dressing appropriately, and that wearing a hat, coat, and tie was not a bad thing. The spouses waiting at the station to finish the ride home seemed to be a real bonus too. I had to walk the two miles.

I did homework on the train. I found newspapers left behind to be quite interesting for the comics and the sports. I also learned that adults communicated in a wierd way. They nodded, smiled, or just glanced at one another in a way that said a whole lot more, but yet a whole lot less than the nonsense that schoolkids felt neccessary.

I also learned that sitting backwards was cool.

[Prodigal Son]

I expect flames for this heresy.

Why? Public transportation is good when it is well thought out and efficient. We rarely use a car in Edinburgh, mostly bus. If we need to go to Glasgow, chances are we take the train- it's just too much bother to drive by automobile.

[DoctorMichael]

Where's Dagney Taggert when you need her Bump.

[Ramius]

The multi-hundred-billion dollar boondoggle in the Seattle area called "Sound Transit" has in its first few months of operation now undercut even the most pessimistic estimates of ridership. They're getting about 300 daily riders, but that's counting the commute in both directions. It's actually only about 150 riders a day.

They're getting really worried now, because next month they'll actually start *charging* to ride the train.

[Ramius]

Sorry... I meant multi-hundred-million. Not billion. Not that it matters.

[Ramius]

I would put it differently... Rail commuting works well when it is there first and the growth happens around it and because of it.

It works in DC, New York, Chicago.

The problem comes when we try to overlay rail commuting on top of a automobile commute. It will simply never work in Seattle, L.A. and San Fran.

[MonroeDNA]

Call for 200 mhp highways, in the US.

[Wright is right!]

"The problem comes when we try to overlay rail commuting on top of a automobile commute."

The one place in the US where the light-rail overlay HAS worked is DART in Dallas. There, they had the benny of several extremely-dense corridors and some ROW that was easy to gain the use of. One line parallels North Central Expressway (US 75), which - despite a complete rebuild in the 90's - is still a clog-a-thon about 18 hours a day. The line starts south of downtown at Le Zoo and goes north all the way thru the affluent Greenville Ave apartment singles zone thru Richard$$$on to the tony suburb of Plano. Population density is extremely high and road alternatives encourage ridership. And I understand the system is fun to ride and well-managed. Near the stations are all kinds of attractions that make leaving the car back at the ranch a good choice.

Michael

[Protagoras]

Perect transportation for exporting jobs.

[Wright is right!]

"It works in DC, New York, Chicago."

Add Boston to the list of old-line rail towns that work. The T has been around forever and is packed all day.

San Diego' Trolley is a somewhat different animal - it started out as an alternative to taking I-5 to Tijuana. It had as much tourist traffic as local ridership. The expansion has changed that, as it moves thru areas of town where tourists rarely stay.

Michael

[jimt]

The one place in the US where the light-rail overlay HAS worked is DART in Dallas.

Which is why they asked the feds for an eighteen million dollar bailout, correct?

All US light rail systems pick the taxpayers' pockets. NONE support themselves via the fare box.