MILITARY AWARDS: EARNED OR NOT, WAS THE CRITERIA MET?

FakeWarriors.com ^ | Thursday, February 05, 2004 | Gerald F. Merna, 1st Lt, U. S. Marine Corps (Retired)

[Congressman Billybob]

I thoroughly agree with your point that there's plenty tbat Kerry has done SINCE Vietnam, which the review of his history whould be rightly focused on. That's precisely the approach that I took in my latest column, now on FR, "John (Benedict?) Kerry."

John / Billybob

[Jeff Gordon]

In general...

V = S/(R^2) where:

V = validity of award
S = Seniority of award
R = Rank of person recieving the award.

[onyx]

Implants, Botox --- these folks professing their allegiance to the "common folk" sure are vain and pretentious. They're entirely superficial.

There's no "there" there. Just lies and a radical left-wing agenda.

[Brian Allen]

<< Kerry: Good enough for Dukakis, good enough for me ... ?? >> Brilliant pic!

Send it to the RNC!

[Dukakis' Lt Gov Jean-Heinz "JFK" O'Cohn-McKerry]

BumPing

[My Dog Likes Me]

The Bronze Star Medal has long been considered a "commendation medal" while serving in a combat zone. Vietnam, the Gulf, Iraq... Lots of troops get them, of all ranks.

Now, the BSM with "V" (for valor) device is a different animal. This rewards a single act of heroism. Like turning around your swift boat under enemy fire and fishing an injured Green Beret out of the water.

[MeekOneGOP]

Go get him, VVAJK !! ...

Kerry 02-03-2004:
"For the second time this week a New England Patriot Won!"

Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry
(Click here or on the pic)

[R. Scott]

It was my experience that there are several levels of courage when awards are made, they are determined by rank, social and political position and assigned duty. An action that would result in a Bronze Star for Valor for an infantry private might result in a Silver Star for a Captain or a Finance Clerk.
This was explained to me one time when I received a peacetime award of the Army Commendation medal for leading a fire fighting team in saving an Army vessel and its crew and passengers. My skipper (who brought our boat along side) received a higher award, my crew - who were as close to the flames as I - received “atta boy” letters.
My skipper was not expected to enter the danger area, therefore the higher award.
My privates were expected to risk their lives, therefore they did nothing special.

[R. Scott]

Was it the Bronze Star for Valor (has “V” devise), or for Meritorious Service (has “M” devise)?

[MeekOneGOP]

Thank you, sir ! I just fired that off to info@GOP.com !!

[hoosiermama]

BUMP for evening read.

[Professional Engineer]

Kerry is a Urinal Target bump!

[blackie]

Interesting ~ Bump!

[Valin]

What's the old saying? A hero ain't nothing but a sandwich.
So you can see there is more than one way to look at this.
If he's a hero, what kind of sandwich is he, A hoogie, ham and cheese, peanutbutter and jelly? And if peanutbutter and jelly. It begs the question smooth or crunchy? What kind of jelly, grape, strawberry?


These are serious questions that need to be answered. And I look forward to the debate.

[middie]

Hey, wait a garl-darn minute here. I dislike medal inflation and wannabes as much as anyone. They do a disservice to themselves, their familes, but most of all to those of our colleagues whose valor and dedication actually earned them the device. All of that anger has been well expressed here and I endorse the sentiment at underlies it.

But to insert what is patently obvious ideological hatred of the Senator who appears to be the front-runner for the Demo's nomination is wrong, just plain, ordinary wrong. The description of his wounds as "slight," "minor," etc. belies the real purpose of the post.

I have no idea of how many on this site have had the good luck being the object of an enemy's aim or computer radar firing solution. It's impossible to know whether any one of these Kerry military record critics has been confronted with the fear and agonizing stress of the smell and fear that accompanies a fire-fight. Whoever they are or whatever may be their experience, they were not present when Lt. Kerry commanded his Riverine Force boat and came under hostile fire.

It strikes me as the height of pretentitiousness and arrogance to now evaluate the relative value of the acts that were the foundation of his recogniton by officers higher up his chain of command. I suggest that it would be fair to describe the challenges to Kerry's military awards are really a type of whinning by those who recognize that the president's service, while certainly lawful and chacterized by discharge as Honorable, was just as certainly chosen as a method to avoid the increased likelihood of service in a hostile environment that taking an active Air Force commission would have warranted.

We take offense at challenges to the president's National Guard service or, whether he actually did anything meaningful after receiving his wings. Yet, we delight in casting a combat veteran's combat related awards in an aura of doubt as a measure of his unworthiness to ascend to the higher public office he seeks. How amazingly disingenuous!!

I admit to total ignorance when it comes to political planning and advocacy. But it's clear to me that raising this issue to catigate Senator Kerry is not only a losing effort standing alone, it puts the president's own questionable Vietnam era conduct into play, and my fellow FR friends is a certain loser.

[BOBTHENAILER]

C. Stewart Forbes, Chief Executive Officer of Colliers International (Kerry's cousin), was awarded a contract worth billions designating Colliers International as the exclusive real estate agent representing Vietnam. Posted by Ben Gustofik at February 7, 2004 08:03 AM

Great post.

[Valin]

The description of his wounds as "slight," "minor," etc. belies the real purpose of the post.

On the contrary, it is very much the point of this thread.
"Kerry experienced his first intense combat action on Dec. 2, 1968. He was slightly wounded on his arm, earning his first Purple Heart.
In late January 1969, Kerry joined a five-man crew on swift boat No. 94 completing 18 missions over 48 days, almost all of them in the Mekong Delta.
Kerry earned his second Purple Heart after sustaining a minor shrapnel wound in his left thigh on Feb. 20, 1969.

When later asked about the severity of the wounds, Kerry said that one of them cost him about two days of service, and that the other two did not interrupt his duty. "Walking wounded," as Kerry put it."
http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm

[kabar]

I admit to total ignorance when it comes to political planning and advocacy. But it's clear to me that raising this issue to catigate Senator Kerry is not only a losing effort standing alone, it puts the president's own questionable Vietnam era conduct into play, and my fellow FR friends is a certain loser.

I agree to some extent that raising the validity of Kerry's wartime service is probably a loser in terms of political strategy--at least as far as the GOP is concerned. However, Kerry's actions and statements after he returned are fair game.

Kerry now wears his military service as a badge of honor because it is politically expedient to do so. However, when he returned home, he threw (at last symbolically) those medals over the WH fence to demonstrate the respect and esteem with which he held the value of those awards. He gave aid and comfort to the enemy by his actions and association with Jane Fonda and her ilk.

Beyond what is the correct thing to do politicially, I do have some serious questions about Kerry's military record, which saw him serve in-country less than four months, win a Silver and Bronze Star, and three PHs, all for minor wounds. Four days after receiving his third wound he initiated a request to be reassigned to the States citing an administative rule. As a Vietnam veteran and former naval officer, I would like to learn more about the vetting process for these awards and the circumstances surrounding his reassignment.

There are some other areaa about Kerry's naval service, i.e., as listed in his bio--Military Service: Navy, 1966-1970; Naval Reserves, 1972-1978. I notice the two year gap, which corresponds to his anti-war activities. I wonder why he joined the reserves in 1972 just a year after co-founding the Vietnam Veterans Against the War and while we were still there fighting. The Peace Treaty was signed Jan 1973 and the NVA didn't enter Saigon until 1975. Rather odd, don't you think?

[middie]

I wouldn't begin to speculate on his reasons for joining the Naval Reserve. Whatever his motivation it is the act of joining the reserve that should be the focus, and, it's an admirable act.

The Treaty of Paris was a forgone conclusion as early as mid-1972. It was the administration's recalcitrance and bickering over the seating and shape of the Paris Peace Talks table that cost more lives at the end of that tragic exercise than those stupid protesters ever did.

I too spent some time in SEA, 30-plus months, and I had serious reservations about the conduct of the war. Not the war itself mind you, but the restrictive manner of our Rules of Engagement and the waiting for targeting approval from the White House.

Why should it concern anyone that Sen. Kerry was a part of the Riverine Force for only several months vis-a-vis a complete year? Is there any question that he actually received the combat related wounds for which he recieved the Purple Hearts? Does anyone really doubt the action which resulted in his Silver Star? (I sort of discount the Bronze Star since virtually every officer anywhere near the bulltes flying got one of them. I still don't know why I got one.).

And what is the beef about his applying for reassignment under a regulation that is well-known to every combatant; thrice wounded and you get a ticket out of the dust-up? He received distinctly separate wounds on four separate operations. Would I have made the same request? Who the hell knows now, some 30 plus years later?

Do you really want to compare Sen. Kerry's accomplishments in Vietnam--even the fact that he volunteered for the service and assignment, to that of the President? That is a seriously losing activity. How did recent Yale graduate Bush jump over hundreds of applicants to get into the Texas Guard? How did he get a flight school assignment and not get follow-up orders to a combat ready unit? How, if the Texas Air Guard unit was tasked to be an active component of the Air Defense Command and guard the Gulf Coast, did he avoid the air-to-air combat qualification course for the F-102? It's one thing to be able to take-off, fly and successfully land an airplane. It's quite another to be able to put that platform to the combat use for it was built and intended. Why was he allowed to go to another state guard--with a presently unknown readiness mandate, and then show up only to get his points for a reserve "good year?" After the investment of time, flight training and the money from the Guard budget, why was he allowed to never get back in the cockpit, close the canopy and advance a throttle?

Those questions beg an undeniably more serious series of answers then those you pose about the characterization of Lt. Kerry's documented SEA and brown water Navy service where the bullets were actually flying.

And speaking of flying, I cannot imagine any self-respecting flier not wearing his wings on a flight suit. Did you notice that when the president trapped on the carrier last May 1st, he was wearing a Navy flight suit with gold wings? Actually, I think a close-up of his flight suit would show them to be NFO wings rather than pilot. Now I have great affection for all naval aviators, but no discerning AF dude would fail to put his own wings on any flight he might climb into. It just ain't gonna happen; not in the AF I knew for 30 years and still keep up with through my son who is a fighter jock--USAFA '92.

It's more than a tactical mistake to parse Sen. Kerry's combat actions 32 years ago; especially when they are comprehensively documented by military records. It appears to be what is doubtlessly is, a desperate attempt to equate, by denigration, Kerry's action under fire to the president's dubious service, a service that was a transparent and successful exercise to avoid being a colleague of John Kerry in Vietnam or elsewhere in the region. That is what a loser would be expected to do and it is a formula for being embarrassed. If political advisors convince him to engage in this futile conduct, he will be deserving of such embarrasement and disaster.

His best approach is candor. I know that is anathema in the politics of those who surround the president, and a concept heretofore unknown to Karl Rove, but candor and honesty really work. I would say to the American public, were this my campaign: "Yes, I chose the Texas Air Guard because it was a lawful and available method to avoid service in Vietnam while, at the same time performing the necessary service of air defense against Cuba and her Soviet allies. The gulf coast was the soft underbelly of our airspace and the Russians could have launched an attack from Cuba against the USA similar to the crisis that occurred in 1963. Had I not gotten into the air guard, I would have joined the active air force. etc., etc.---If I had it to do over again, knowing what I now know, I would not succumb to the impulse of youth and see my duty differently. I have spent most of my adult life trying to benefit the American public notwithstanding that singular poor youthful decision."

If that were the response, the public would not give it a second thought and the issue would vaporize never to be heard from again. After all, who among us adults would not, if we could, change a youthful choice that in retrospect was patently unwise? Hell, I know I would and I'll spring for dinner for anyone who can honestly assert otherwise.

There's a single word for the Republicans pressing the issue of Kerry's service with it's inevitable juxtaposition to that of the President, that word is: "dumb."

[PhilDragoo]

Balloon caption on original jpg at source site

[Just mythoughts]

You have valid points. JFKerry has made this a campaign issue.

He wants to become Commander-in-Chief. Using only his "war" hero status with a chest full of medals and miraculous appearance of that 1 Republican he saved all those years ago. However, all that was prior to pretending to throw his medals away, and he sure is not talking about those days.

You may not like the fact that some want to know the veracity of his "WAR" hero status he is running on. This is not the RNC, we are citizens who want to know if what is claimed is fact, considering his actions after being awarded the medals he is oh so proud of these days.