Kennewick Man Speaks

Seattle Times ^ | 2-7-2004

[Chris Talk]

I believe the current theory is that, some 60k years ago, a human population developed in west-central Asia [from ultimate African sources] from which the Ainu proceeded very early all the way East to Japan and Sakhalin, etc. This is so early that everybody was Caucasoid. [proto-Caucasoid, I should say.]

Later, from this group, the whole Mongolian race somehow developed and headed east and southeast. Also, from it the Turks and Finns, etc. headed west towards Europe...

European races except the Finns, Hungarians, and other recent arrivals from Asia are thought to have proceeded from the Middle East direct to Europe some 30k years ago with no reference to the Central Asian distribution point.

IIRC, Kennewick Man has more affinity to the Europoid than to the Central Asian descendants such as Turks, Finns, or Ainu...

[Pharmboy]

Thank you for the excellent review. May I ask if DNA and/or mtDNA evidence is supportive of this view, or is this derived mainly from fossils...or linguistics?

[Chris Talk]

I believe it is the current take on mtDNA derived theories, of human migration patterns. Let us say is is 80% mtDNA and 20% fossils. I always try to make things a little clearer by taking them out of academish and discarding side issues and minutia.

[adam_az]

"I can't say I'm too enthused about any court, especially this one, determining what is scientifically correct."


Really! Does that mean you don't agree with scientific forensic evidence being used in trials, either?

Can I put you on record saying that you'd prefer rapists and murderers to be walking the streets?

[blam]

"Melbourne and the Windover site are in BREVARD County, which also contains the Cape Canaveral facility and the county seat at Titusville, etc."

Yup. I know all that. I used to live in Satellite Beach, Indialantic, Palm Bay and Melbourne, all in Brevard county. I assume it's the writers error.

[Pharmboy]

I always try to make things a little clearer by taking them out of academish and discarding side issues and minutia.

The origin and quality of evidence is a side issue? I don't agree.

[Chris Talk]

Not of course, if one is himself a scientist or academic, but I took the question as just being a layman's inquiry as to what the broad outlines of current thought in this matter are.

I do not believe linguistics had ANY bearing on it, because we are talking very early times, and the so called Indo European mother tongue is thought to itself only date back some 10k years, and we were talking 3 or 6 times that far back...
Ten years from now it may all be different, just as surely as it was very different back when I was in college.

[blam]

"This is so early that everybody was Caucasoid. [proto-Caucasoid, I should say.]"

That is pretty much the theory James Chatters (Did most of the work on Kennewick Man) proposes in his book about Kennewick Man, Ancient Encounters.

He said that Kennewick Man probably belonged to a group that produced both Asians and Caucasians.

[blam]

"Let us say is is 80% mtDNA and 20% fossils."

I believe it to be the other way round.

[Chris Talk]

Chatters and also Tom Dillehay are true scientists, who have had to bear a lot of scars and wounds from far lesser men who call themselves scientists, also from government bureaucrats. They also did not have every educational and financial advantage when growing up and getting their degrees either.

[Local Fla Joke: The word "redneck" is used. Punchline A: "We prefer to say, Just Home Folks." Punchline B: "We prefer to say, White People who have had Few Advantages in Life."]

Clinton admin, and Babbit buried Kennewick site under 500 tons of concrete to protect the artifacts from ever being found. Talk about head in the sand. No Genesis-1 creationist ever was that repressive of facts, trying to prevent Neanderthal or evolutionary evidence from being found!

[blam]

More.

Vintage Skulls

[okie01]

Read the excellent (and hard to get) book by Barry Fell called Bronze Age America

Would that be America B.C.?

[blam]

More From James Chatters:

The 'Stick Man' Commeth (Kennewick Man's Cousin?)

[Chris Talk]

No, he wrote 3 books for the public [on this topic]. Bronze Age America is the one I mentioned. America BC is the most famous and widely circulated. The third is Saga America.

[blam]

"Would that be America B.C.?"

No, two different books by Fell.

* Bronze Age America

* America BC

[Pharmboy]

Well, I see you're new here. Welcome, but please do not speak down to Freepers--you'd be amazed at the breadth of expertise on these boards (re-read your earlier post to me about the evidence and you'll see the condescension). Not a big deal; just a point of order.

Linguistics has certainly been helpful in tracing the relationships between several of the groups that you had mentioned, eg, Turks, Finns, Hungarians. What I had been looking for with my question was information on the origin/relationships of the Ainu language.

[Chris Talk]

No, I just thought that anyone who was an expert or academic in this field would not be asking ME a question, since he would already know... And of course I am myself just a layman who keeps up to some degree...

Now that is one I have never read a SCRAP about, I have no idea whether Ainu is related to Turkish or Finnish, never saw a word on it. I might guess their original language might be extinct now, wouldn't they speak Japanese now?

[blam]

I found this very interesting:

Stranger In A New Land

[Chris Talk]

oh there it is, your post 71. Somebody put a hilarious picture of John Kerry on there, on that thread about the vintage skulls.

[blam]

"Linguistics has certainly been helpful in tracing the relationships between several of the groups that you had mentioned, eg, Turks, Finns, Hungarians. What I had been looking for with my question was information on the origin/relationships of the Ainu language."

You may consider looking at some of the work of Victor Mair for possible answers.

Victor Mair and J P Malloy have written an excellent book titled, The Tarim Mummies