The Patriarch and Fidel

OrthodoxyToday.org via FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | February 5, 2004 | Johannes L. Jacobse

[MarMema]

Fr. Hans is a brilliant writer, among my favorites. Nevertheless, we don't know what was said privately to Castro about his prisoners. Just because the press didn't report it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[MarMema]

He doesn’t understand that it makes no sense to offer a cross to an avowed atheist and persecutor of Christians.

I guess I don't understand either, Fr. Hans. Seems like just the right person to give a cross to, imo.

[David1]

As a Catholic, I have very deep respects for the Orthodox churches. I just could not understand why the patriarch of a church so repressed by communists in the past would go to Cuba and kiss the butt of a communist dictator.

[PattonReincarnated]

>> I just could not understand why the patriarch of a church so repressed by communists in the past would go to Cuba and kiss the butt of a communist dictator.

Go figure, I can't figure out why priests in America want to kiss each other's butts. Something very wrong is happening in catholic (lower-case 'c') churches. I'm a non-practicing Episcopalian that feels like I have no where to turn.

[DTA]

>>>>>>>But the implication that lifting the embargo will measurably improve the Cuban economy is historically naïve.<<<<

Today in Cuba, out of 10 million, 9 million live in abject powerty and Castro's version of worker's paradise ($10 a month, lousy food, horrible housing etc.

The catch is - many of them never lived better. They are the backbone of Castro's regime. They take the pride of "defeating U.S.A.", they are the consumers of Castro drivel. Without Castro, they would be lost.

Around 1 million, those with access to American dollars live in different world. Tourist industry, sex workers, people who get remittance from abroad, they live different life. And the majority of them knew of better times before Castro. A 10 minutes stroll in Havana shopping mall with shops selling merchandise for dollars will show that. It caters to 1 million Cubans who want DVDs, German cars and other symbols of consumer society. Only if they could afford.

As it is today, Castro could organize free elections, invite international observers and win counting on the votes from 9 million.

As long as embargo is in force, Castro can foam about "Yankees are destroying Cuba that's why we have problems." Without U.S. embargo, Castro would be lost.

The key of dismantling dictatorship is not addressing 1 million, they know it already. The key is getting another one or two million out of 9 million Castro supporters.

If Hose can work for Star*ucks and earn per day what he was earning per for a month with Castro, Hose's family and friends will wake up and smell the coffee.

This can be achieved with the gradual and careful lifting of embargo and the property rights of American citizens and opening of new businesses can be neatly tied together. Carrot and stick policy.

One has to be pretty naive to believe that U.S.was capable of dismantling the entire Eastern block and can not unseat the Old Man.

Methinks, U.S. and Castro are jointly keeping 10 million Cubans in the prison. The only thing I do not know why. Preservation of resources, perhaps.

[MarMema]

I just could not understand why the patriarch of a church so repressed by communists in the past would go to Cuba and kiss the butt of a communist dictator.

Well for one thing I didn't think Constantinople was communist, and after that, Castro built the church and invited Bartholomew to come. It was a gift. I don't think Bartholomew kissed any one anywhere, it was widely reported that he didn't show at many political events which had expected him.

Bartholomew went to bless the church, thanked Castro with a gift and honor, then went home. It's called being gracious.

[MarMema]

Something very wrong is happening in catholic (lower-case 'c') churches.

Speak for yourself. The Orthodox church is alive and well. Bartholomew has always erred on the side of ecumenical and overly friendly behavior and we have long known of his tendency in this direction.

[David1]

Umm...the Russian Orthodox Church was extremely repressed by the communist. And last time I checked, the Russian Orthodox Church is still in union with the Church in Constantinople. Both Churches are part of the same Orthodox tradition. The Orthodox have been one of the great institutions in this world who have fought the communists.

I just think he could have thanked him a better way. This was a Castro stunt and the patriacrch played into it by giving this tyrant so much good publicity as the article stated. I would have respected him more if he actually went to the island and spoke out for the oppressed people in the island. Or would that have been too rude??? Screw the oppressed people in Cuba, Castro gave me a gift in a Church so I will not say squat. That seemed to be the thinking of the patriacrch.

[David1]

At the very least have the guts to meet dissidents. Or would that again have been too rude for him??? But I know he is only human and can commit mistakes. He commited a mistake by not meeting with the dissidents. That is the least he could have done.

[PattonReincarnated]

>> Speak for yourself.

I believe I was speaking for myself. I will also say, for myself, that I am rather ignorant of the Orthodox Church. So what I see is superficial. I find it inherently wrong to show any sign of friendship with a dictator such as Castro. I hate to say this, because I know it will ruffle a lot of feathers, but I have problems with the Pope's lack backbone when it comes to evil regimes such as Saddam's and outright opposition to United States foreign policy. I should mention that I stopped going to the Episcopal Church when the Presiding Bishop overtly opposed fighting the war on terror. Now the Episcopal Church allows queers to be Bishops. Sick – absolutely sick. The Roman Church has a bunch of queers running around too, but they just are not as open about it. Sick – absolutely sick. One can be a And I consider Castro evil - and absolutely sick. Christian and still fight evil. Of course, I’m just speaking for myself.

[MarMema]

Umm...the Russian Orthodox Church was extremely repressed by the communist.

Right, but Bartholomew was never their Patriarch. Though you are correct that they are in communion. It was the way you worded it that led me to reply. I think you said "....the Patriarch of a church which was repressed by communism..." or something similar.

[MarMema]

Far be it for you to judge his behavior. If you go back and read the Bible again you will not find that Christ told us to snub sinners.

Patriarch Bartholomew is not interested in politics or worldly battles, but in keeping the love of Christ within him and showing himself to be a role model of the same.

[MarMema]

All made in His image and loved by God. They would all be welcomed warmly by God should they decide to come home.

Rather than calling them names, what can we do to show them God's love for them? I would think we would do what Patriarch Bartholomew has done, try to represent Christ as best you can, to let the love of Christ shine through you. There is nothing more important than this, and in the end it could be the best way to achieve some success with the release of the prisoners.

[David1]

It is not just simple politics for some one to advocate basic human rights; it is basic human decency. He had no guts or decency to stand up for the basic human rights for people in Cuba. All he was interested in was this "gift" from this tyrant and the Cuban people and go screw themselves.

[MarMema]

I sure hope people don't judge you this harshly.

How much charity have you sent to Cuba this year?

How many times have you made an effort to speak out for the prisoners in Cuba?

You don't know what was said privately. Our Patriarchs don't like to hog the camera.

[MarMema]

Should any of these people have spoken out as well, or is it only Bartholmew who bears the guilt?

[cyborg]

Stop making excuses for this patriarch's obvious snub of dissidents.

[MarMema]

Where was the snub? Because he didn't go to Cuba and do the politically correct thing?

Since when does the fact that he is a Patriarch make him liable for all the world's presecutions and hardships?

So every place he goes he has to seek out and speak in front of the cameras about some persecution taking place there?

I don't think so. The problem of prisoners is that of the Cuban people and Castro, not Bartholmew. The problem of consecrating a new Orthodox church belonged to Bartholomew.

[cyborg]

Ah you think Castro would have allowed him to speak to dissidents? He's not liable for all the world's hardships but he's going into a country and meeting with a brutal dictator. Cuba is 85% Roman Catholic but Castro is allowing Orthodox Churches to open in Cuba. Why is that? I don't understand why you can't see the reasons that people find this meeting to be just plain dictator butt kissing.