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France Adds Beards to List of Taboo Religious Signs
Reuters ^ | 1/20/04 | Tom Heneghan

Posted on 01/20/2004 3:34:12 PM PST by CoolGuyVic

France Adds Beards to List of Taboo Religious Signs Tue January 20, 2004 05:26 PM ET

By Tom Heneghan PARIS (Reuters) - France's plan to bar religious symbols from state schools slid into confusion Tuesday after the education minister said a proposed ban on Muslim veils could also outlaw beards if they were judged to be a sign of faith.

Opposition politicians derided the government plan as misguided and some of President Jacques Chirac's conservative allies said they would abstain or vote against the law meant to stem growing Islamist influence among some of France's five million Muslims.

In another sign of the political tangle the veil debate has caused, a senior French official issued a rare public rebuke to Pope John Paul II for saying some politicians' efforts to ban faith from the public sphere endangered religious freedom in Europe.

Education Minister Luc Ferry made the surprising statement about disciplining bearded students in a National Assembly legal committee hearing about the draft law on the ban due to be debated next month.

Discussing the plan to remove Islamic headscarves from state schools, he told a communist deputy who asked about a pupil with a beard: "As soon as it becomes a religious sign and the code is apparent, it would fall under this law."

Pious Muslim men wear beards in obedience to the Prophet Mohammad, who is said to have instructed them to do so.

Sikhs -- of whom there are over 5,000 in the Paris area -- also wear beards because they do not cut their hair. Ferry said they might still be able to wear discreet turbans to school but did not mention their facial hair.

Claude Goasguen, deputy leader for Chirac's UMP party in parliament, said he was considering abstaining from the vote. Centrist Francois Bayrou denounced the planned ban as "a whiff of oxygen for fundamentalists" who would exploit it to whip up protests.

Socialist deputy Julien Dray declared: "This is putting a comic face on a very serious issue." Socialist parliamentary leader Jean-Marc Ayrault said the government's position "is not clear at all."

BAN BROADER THAN FIRST THOUGHT

Explaining the draft law to deputies, Ferry said the text would bar "signs and clothes which conspicuously manifest the religious affiliation of the pupils." Officials have said this means it would outlaw Muslim veils, Jewish skullcaps and large Christian crosses

But drafters chose to use this broad wording rather than draw up a list of banned symbols so pupils could not bypass the law by wearing other items that clearly have a religious significance but were not expressly forbidden, Ferry said. France has reaped widespread criticism for the ban, which it says will keep religion out of state schools and thus promote respect for all religions. Many commentators abroad cannot fathom this logic and accuse Paris of violating religious freedom.

France's Muslim community, the largest in Europe, has said it feels targeted by the ban and launched demonstrations against it. Local Christian and Jewish religious leaders have also criticized it.

Pope John Paul II weighed into the debate last week with a warning about what he considered excessive secularism in some European countries, a clear jibe at France.

Bernard Stasi, who led a commission that first proposed the ban on religious symbols in state schools, wrote in the daily Le Monde that the Polish-born pontiff was misinformed about France and should not give fundamentalists ammunition against Paris.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: beards; france; males; muslims; religiousexpression
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The Frenchies thought they were mad before...
1 posted on 01/20/2004 3:34:13 PM PST by CoolGuyVic
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To: CoolGuyVic
Uh oh..
2 posted on 01/20/2004 3:36:12 PM PST by Dog
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To: CoolGuyVic
The Vichy Republic lives.
3 posted on 01/20/2004 3:37:21 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: CoolGuyVic
france, looking for a war they refuse to fight.
4 posted on 01/20/2004 3:37:34 PM PST by cripplecreek (.50 cal border fence)
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To: CoolGuyVic
"France Adds Beards to List of Taboo Religious Signs"

How can they tell if a sign is religious?

5 posted on 01/20/2004 3:39:03 PM PST by Khurkris (Ranger On...)
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To: Khurkris
maybe they match the beard with the black eye on the wife.
6 posted on 01/20/2004 3:42:55 PM PST by cripplecreek (.50 cal border fence)
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To: CoolGuyVic
Hey... don't Mormons have a rule that all their adherents be clean-shaven? If that's the case, then a clean-shaven Mormon would be displaying a religious symbol, and would be forced to grow a beard, while Muslims with beards would be forced to shave them!
7 posted on 01/20/2004 3:45:50 PM PST by Stone Mountain
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To: CoolGuyVic
Maybe they should just tax them.
8 posted on 01/20/2004 3:46:05 PM PST by CasearianDaoist
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To: CoolGuyVic
What about...


9 posted on 01/20/2004 3:46:19 PM PST by polemikos (The solution to AIDs is behavior, not condoms)
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To: Stone Mountain
Actually, that should be Sikhs, not Muslims...
10 posted on 01/20/2004 3:47:25 PM PST by Stone Mountain
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To: Khurkris

11 posted on 01/20/2004 3:48:58 PM PST by Dog Gone
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To: CoolGuyVic
"This is putting a comic face on a very serious issue." I thought this was Chiraqs job.
12 posted on 01/20/2004 3:49:32 PM PST by SF Republican
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To: cripplecreek
france, looking for a war they refuse to fight.

Too funny!
13 posted on 01/20/2004 3:49:36 PM PST by demkicker
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To: CoolGuyVic
Hmm...a beard, a scarf, and the guy taught religion classes. That feller Robert E. Lee has got to go!
14 posted on 01/20/2004 3:50:01 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Dog Gone
ROFL!

That is funny!

15 posted on 01/20/2004 3:51:53 PM PST by Dog
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To: CoolGuyVic
Let me add your "Uh oh".. to my "BAWHWHAHAHHAHAHHAHA"!!! Damn silly monkeys! Watch the Religion of Piece do some car bombings in LA France and ChIRAQ and the little monkeys will be singing a different tune! When push comes to shove, Jihad is next! LOOKY HERE.. look what I found in the dictionary:
Arabic jihad
1 : a holy war waged on behalf of Islam as a religious duty
2 : a crusade for a principle or belief

Now tell me by this that the Muslims are going to kick back and take it all in strive? I sincerely doubt it! LA' France is messing with their religious duty, it's a principle belief to wear scarves and beards. HOLY SMOKES, LA France is shitting on a dangerous tree!
16 posted on 01/20/2004 3:59:19 PM PST by RoseofTexas (r)
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To: RoseofTexas
At what point did "religious symbols" become a problem in France; when Jews moved there; Christians...whan? Just curious.
17 posted on 01/20/2004 4:04:35 PM PST by TalBlack ("Tal, no song means anything without someone else...")
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To: CoolGuyVic
Is France begging for a jihad?
18 posted on 01/20/2004 4:07:16 PM PST by Right_in_Virginia
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To: CoolGuyVic
Gotta keep the JOOOOZ away from Chirac!


19 posted on 01/20/2004 4:12:13 PM PST by Alouette (Proud parent of an IDF recruit!)
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To: CoolGuyVic
Didn't wearing clothes have its roots in a religious setting in the Garden of Eden........
Henceforth, no respectible Frog will be allowed to wear clothes!!!!!!
20 posted on 01/20/2004 4:17:19 PM PST by pointsal
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