Hispanic residents mixed on Bush guest worker program

At 70, Mexican-born Santos Torres Lucio labors in the Immokalee tomato fields during harvest season so he can make enough money to support himself and send money back to his family.

Torres Lucio has lived in Collier County for six years and admits that working in the farm fields is a hard, demanding job that not just anyone would accept.

"It's really difficult having to battle it out for yourself in the fields," he said. "At my age, I have to work even harder. I get tired, but I do the job."

Torres Lucio joins millions of undocumented workers nationwide who are placing their hopes on a recent temporary worker program proposed by President Bush.

To critics, however, Bush's proposal is nothing but a ploy to offer amnesty and legalize the millions of illegal/undocumented people in the United States. They charge the proposal is an outright assault on U.S. immigration laws and would encourage more undocumented workers to cross the U.S.-Mexico border bound for this country.

The proposal, if passed, would allow the estimated 8 million to 10 million illegal aliens residing in the United States to register with the federal government and obtain a work permit only if they can prove they're employed here.

Immokalee farmworkers such as Vicente Junes are undocumented, yet manage to get work in the fields and groves picking tomatoes, peppers, oranges and other fruits and vegetables.

"We do a lot for the country because we're in agriculture, which is real hard labor," said Junes, 60, a native of El Salvador. "It's really hard on your body and you get so exhausted. But at my age, I can still work pretty fast."

Opponents of the temporary worker program contend the proposal would threaten the U.S. economy because companies would employ unskilled laborers to pay them less, while refusing to hire U.S. citizens.

The proposal allows foreign workers — and those currently here without legal documents — to stay here for three years if employed. Once the three years expires, they would return to their country of origin.

Among the critics is Craig Nelsen, executive director of Project U.S.A., a private, nonprofit national watchdog group based in Washington, D.C., that promotes the enforcement of immigration laws.

Nelsen and other group supporters believe Bush's proposal will hurt U.S. citizens.

"There's an assumption by everybody that the White House is being straight with people on this," he said. "They (the Bush administration) say they are against a blanket amnesty, yet turn around and offer a plan that would permit illegal aliens to remain legally and permanently in the United States. Of course this is amnesty."

At a recent Summit of the Americas meeting in Monterrey, Mexico, Mexican President Vicente Fox lauded Bush's initiative as a good step.

The National Council of La Raza, a Hispanic advocacy group, doesn't view the proposal as amnesty.

"This is just a guest worker program and we don't think it gets to the root causes of undocumented immigration," said Michele Waslin, immigration policy analyst at La Raza in the nation's capital.

The plan, she said, "is harmful for the immigrant worker because many guest workers are mistreated and they're vulnerable."

"This is certainly not an amnesty. If anything, it would help those employers who are hiring undocumented workers now and they wouldn't be penalized for that," she said. "Rather, they'd get a bonus for hiring cheap labor for short periods of time."

Whatever you call it, Bush's plan has drawn both praise and criticism from the large Hispanic populace in Southwest Florida.

For Jose Hernandez, an Immokalee resident who works as a painter from time to time, the proposal wouldn't help.

"Different companies hire me to paint and I don't have a steady job with them," said Hernandez, 33, who arrived from Mexico five years ago. "This plan isn't going to help people like me because I don't work for the same company every day."

Victor Grimaldo is an organizer with The Farmworker Association of Florida, a farmworker advocacy group with a branch office in Immokalee.

"We think a complete amnesty would be great," he said. "A lot of people have made their lives here. They should first have the amnesty.

"I don't think this proposal goes far enough because there are so many Hispanics who come here, work here, make a life and then they're told, 'Now you have to go back home.' This is a small step but it's not really what we need," Grimaldo said.

Grimaldo described the fear that so many undocumented workers in Immokalee and elsewhere constantly confront. The workers are aware that the potential for deportation or random immigration sweeps always exist, he said.

"People are always used to living in hiding," Grimaldo said. "They're paranoid that immigration or someone else will come and get them."

That type of scenario is all too common for Karen Caco, an immigration attorney with the North Naples law firm of Caco Law Group/Parrish, White & Lawhon.

"I have a client who is terrified of immigration walking in to work because he uses a fake Social Security number and he's terrified of getting pulled over because he's driving without a license," she said. "If amnesty were to come in, it would benefit them because they wouldn't have to hide anymore."

"We can't have millions of illegals roaming through the country," said Anne Marie Gressani, a French-born U.S. citizen from East Naples. "They don't have the proper documents and so who knows who they are? They are trying to take advantage of the country. This is a bad thing."

In Gressani's view, if the proposal were approved it would be detrimental to the American work force.

"When you are illegal, what can you really do?" she asked. "Illegal people take advantage and take jobs from American people. Many of them probably should be sent back to their country. They are a danger. They are breaking the law."

Esteban Cabrera, a Cuban-American from Miami, delivers fruits and vegetables to Immokalee via his produce company, S.A.G. International Distributors, which imports produce from Central America.

Cabrera pointed to how the U.S. immigration system, in his view, isn't balanced because it allows certain groups, such as Cubans, to immigrate while rejecting people from other countries. He has reservations about allowing floods of people to enter and stay here.

"I believe in human rights and giving everyone a fair chance," said Cabrera, 25, "but if everyone is allowed to come here, it might overpopulate us. If you have too many people and not enough jobs, it might pose a problem."

Other residents are enthusiastic about the plan, saying it would cater to some service-industry jobs that are often hard to fill.

Penny Rambacher is a flight attendant with AmericanAirlines and a volunteer with Airline Ambassadors, a national organization that brings humanitarian aid to 20 countries.

Rambacher has traveled to Latin American nations such as Guatemala and Ecuador and seen the poverty and desperation first-hand.

"The standard of living is so low they're desperate for survival ... for something to eat, for a better way for their family," said Rambacher of East Naples. "They're going to keep coming (to the United States), whether they're legal or illegal. Wouldn't it be better to regulate that?"

Rambacher said she was a food manager in the service industry for 15 years and noted how, from her experience, it's difficult to fill certain jobs.

The undocumented workers "fill a lot of jobs that American citizens don't want to fill," she said. "It was very difficult, almost impossible, to fill a vacancy for people who wanted those jobs and had good attendance and a work ethic.

"Who do you see in the work force mowing your lawn and who are the roofers? That's hard labor — the Americans don't want it."

Guadalupe Romero, a Mexican national from Immokalee who works in the kitchen of Azteca Super Centro 2000 grocery store/cafeteria, backs the proposal.

"A lot of people are worried about deportation," said Romero, 50. "It would take so much pressure off of us. We need a steady work permit where we could work here and come and go freely between here and Mexico. That's the ideal thing."

Prisma Bravo, a 19-year-old Mexican native, works at the same store preparing tamales and other home-cooked delights to sell to the mostly Hispanic clientele.

"We come here looking for a better life," she said, "but we don't want to stay forever. We just come here to work. You always think about and want to return to your homeland one day."

Nelsen, with Project U.S.A., believes Bush's plan is all part of a bigger scheme.

"The administration says (it) is trying to reach out to Hispanics. ... We call that racial pandering and should be beneath any honorable politician," he said. "More than a political strategy, it's a straight payback to corporate America."

Nelsen noted how for years Republicans have been accused by Democrats and others of being in the back pocket of big business.

"This policy is going to do nothing to dispel that image that Republicans are for big business and will shaft the little guy," he said. "It's the blue-collar working-class American who suffers because of illegal immigration."

Bush is seeking a second term in office this year and he's merely politicking, Nelsen theorized.

"I think the calculation is, politically, they're hoping the proposal is going to die in Congress so it's not going to be problematic for Bush's base so Bush will get lots of good coverage in the Spanish-language press while ignoring the backlash in the English-language press," he said.

Immokalee tomato picker Francisco Romero defended his right to work in the United States, performing the only job he's qualified for.

"This type of work is dirty and difficult because it's so hard on you physically," said Romero, 38. "No one else wants to do this job. There aren't any Anglo workers in the fields. If we left, the Americans wouldn't do this job."

"...who are the roofers? That's hard labor — the Americans don't want it."

Americans aren't roofers? The guys who roofed my last house sure seemed to be American. Americans don't work construction? Vamos, vato.

Yeah, if you left all the stupid American's would just starve to death, cities would come to a grinding halt, it would be the end of America.

[Yeah, if you left all the stupid American's would just starve to death, cities would come to a grinding halt, it would be the end of America.]

Would that be a low-fat AND a low-carb diet? I can see the bumper stickers now:

End obesity in America - Seal the boarders

There are specific people quoted in the article, and I'll tell you one of the few things that has helped silence our illegals - nail them. Report their names to the local office of C&IS and tell them about the illegal who is bragging about being here, make sure you quote the name of the article.

Call congress critters, tell the staffer the name, the name of the article, the name of the person you talked to at Immigration, and insist that someone follow up and make sure that so and so is deported.

Gather a listing of farms in the area, send a letter with the person's name and maybe a print out of the article. Say that you'll be notifying immigration that you've warned them about an illegal by that name, and that they can not hire this person and claim to not know he was an illegal.

Silencing organizations is next to impossible, but making illegals not talk to the press and give sob stories to confuse the issue is a very important thing to do. I've nailed a few in my area in this manner, and the local paper has stopped asking illegals to identify themselves.

They really don't get it. Americans were doing the jobs before they came, and Americans will be doing the jobs after they leave.

As I have said on other threads, I don't have a problem with immigrants. I have a problem with illegal immigrants. There are millions of people would love to come to this country and work hard and assimilate into the this culture. People who want to be part of America, not just people coming here for a quick buck and taking the money home with them.

[I've nailed a few in my area in this manner, and the local paper has stopped asking illegals to identify themselves.]

Therein lies the problem. The papers will just omit the names the next time. It does little to actually combat the problem.

The problem in this area ( and I am sure other areas as well) is that the laws are not enforced. Immigrantion law in this country is a joke. That is one of things that ticks me off about Bush's proposal. He promises strict enforcement of the laws in the future, and I don't believe it. There is no attempt right now to enforce them so why believe they will be enforced later. It is an amnesty plan.

I actually like the idea. The primaries are the perfect place to let the current administration feel our anger. We do no harm to Bush's reelection and yet we let him know that he should not take us for granted.

If conservatives do not hold pressure on Bush, we will be ignored as he swings to the left. The problem with him doing that, is that he moves the base of the debate to the left. Pretty soon, conservatives will be left out of the equation.

Immokalee farmworkers such as Vicente Junes are undocumented, yet manage to get work in the fields and groves picking tomatoes, peppers, oranges and other fruits and vegetables.

Remember that less than 2% of those millions pick those veggies. The rest are moving into Industry, Construction and Restaurants.

"[I've nailed a few in my area in this manner, and the local paper has stopped asking illegals to identify themselves.]

Therein lies the problem. The papers will just omit the names the next time. It does little to actually combat the problem."

I think K's idea is a good one. What's wrong with us citizen's trying to do our part in helping eradicate this problem? If just every citizen would get one illegal busted, we could send a message. We're not gonna stand for this anymore, and there is a hell of lot more of us legals, than the illegals. (for now)

[Remember that less than 2% of those millions pick those veggies. The rest are moving into Industry, Construction and Restaurants.]

I wasn't aware of the 2% figure, but I do know about them moving into other industries. Unless something is done, this problem will only get worse. (And I do not consider Bush's proposal as getting something done)

[I think K's idea is a good one. What's wrong with us citizen's trying to do our part in helping eradicate this problem? If just every citizen would get one illegal busted, we could send a message. We're not gonna stand for this anymore, and there is a hell of lot more of us legals, than the illegals. (for now) ]

There is nothing wrong with the proposal except that I don't think it would work. We could certainly get citizens to file the complaints, but that is only the beginning. Next you have to have authorities that would actually do somethign about it. If the authorities cared to address the problem, do you think these guys would be unafraid to give interviews? More likely the authorities will give you the run around for bothering them.

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