Russia's shoulder-fired surface to air missiles: Now an Islamist terrorist threat

WorldTechTribune ^ | 30 December 2003 | Christopher Holton

[LSUfan]

Originally designed to threaten U.S. and allied military aircraft in the event of conventional war, today these Russian weapons – and their Chinese knock-offs – pose one of the greatest terrorist threats in the hands of Al Qaida.

Shoulder-fired surface to air missiles, sometimes referred to as MANPADS (Man Portable Air Defense Systems), are not new, but they have emerged recently as one of the major worries for counter-terrorists around the globe for two primary reasons:

[LSUfan]

Apologize in advance for not posting the whole article. It is lengthy, with many breaks.

[RussianConservative]

What of all Stingers that CIA give Afghanst who then sell on world market?

[WTTed]

There have been reports of some being used in Chechnya, but none were supplied to OBL's group.

[RussianConservative]

How you know? Many dead Chechins in Afghanistan and several in Cuba now...even IRA buy US stinger from Afghans, why not Bin Ladin...are they inferior then? Must be if he not buy them.

[Eva]

Russia is in big trouble right now, because the LA Times has revealed that Russia was supplying Saddam and his cohorts with weapons, using Syria as a go between. You'd better be prepared for more bad news, as this gets more press. Saddam is talking.

[Kozak]

Those Stingers are over 13 years old now at best. Not likely to be very effective. Propellant, batteries are beyond their life span.

[WTTed]

The CIA was not associated with OBL's group. Simple as that.

[RussianConservative]

Soo? Afghans sell stingers on black market, why then assume Bin Ladin not buy any?

[Little Ray]

Turns out these things have shelf lives. The Stingers provided in Afghanistan are past the end of their shelf-lives. Batteries are dead, seekers are unreliable, rocket engines might fail to ignite, or even explode. It might be possible to bring some of them back up to service standards, but those skills are rare or nonexistent among the terrorists, as are the parts and equipment.
This means the terrorists need new missiles and, no offense, it is easier to get new SA-14s (or its successors) on the black market than it is it to get new Stingers or Blowpipes.

[chudogg]

I believe they expired? I could be wrong.

[tortoise]

Soo? Afghans sell stingers on black market, why then assume Bin Ladin not buy any?

Stingers have a limited shelf-life before needing a fairly sophisticated overhaul. I believe it is somewhere around ten years. The parts that need to be serviced/replaced are the cryogenic coolers for the IR seekers. IR sensors need to be aggressively cooled if you want any kind of useful performance out of them; any Stinger left over from Afghanistan will no longer have a properly functional sensor because the material is too warm and will effectively be flying blind. The US systems use fairly sophisticated cryogenic coolers with a limited shelf-life.

The same goes for the Russian missiles as well, though some of the older versions (e.g. SA7 series) can be serviced by a relatively unsophisticated user. If I am not mistaken, these systems use simple CO2-based coolers. Not that the SA7 is effective whether it has had its cooler overhauled or not.

[archy]

There have been reports of some being used in Chechnya, but none were supplied to OBL's group.

Not supplied directly to OBL's group....

If you don't use middlemen and cutouts, there's less opportunity for profit.

-archy-/-

[Major_Risktaker]

Hunting Season Is Open!

[RussianConservative]

No offense...I know need more control on generals selling weapon under table, or privates "loosing" weapon. This is disgusting thing and should have hard labor at end of course.

[archy]

Not that the SA7 is effective whether it has had its cooler overhauled or not.

The HIND-D pilots in Nicaragua facing upgraded 9K32M Strela-2 *SA7* missiles in the hands of the Contras might have had a few words of disagreement with you about that. As would Gene Hasenfus, the only crewman with a parachute when the CIA C-123K aircraft *Fat Lady* he was loadmaster on was hit by one fired by Nicaraguan troops. The Strela is a *revenge* missile, needing a shot at the target aircraft's exhaust after it's passed, but it's also very good at disregarding decoy flares as a result.

And it's when it's used in conjunction with other AA weapons, guns and other missile systems, especially when launched in multiples, that it's at its best.

-archy-/-

[archy]

No offense...I know need more control on generals selling weapon under table, or privates "loosing" weapon. This is disgusting thing and should have hard labor at end of course.

But still common. And can be utilized to good effect by using such persons and their contacts to collect even larger rewards for capture of senior enemies making such deals, or supplying them with rigged weapons with nasty surprises includes at no extra charge.

[Little Ray]

Doesn't have to be generals... I once heard a story about a Soviet crew trading their tank for vodka and pickled eggs. The innkeeper they traded it to was caught because he was selling such high quality scrap steel... Don't know how true the story is, but it it is just silly enough to be true!

And lord only knows how much stuff comes back from training exercises in duffle bags.
Once upon time on a range in Grafenwoehr, my LT found one more mortar round... AFTER he finished burning the extra charges. We HAD to get rid of the round and didn't have enough of charges to fire it all the way to the target area.
A short round would look REAL bad, bringing the round back would be real bad, and somebody might notice that we hadn't fired all of the rounds if we just hid it... But one of our mortar crewmen had enough extra charges in his bag to fire the round to the impact area - he was going to use them for fire starters!

[tortoise]

The Strela is a *revenge* missile, needing a shot at the target aircraft's exhaust after it's passed, but it's also very good at disregarding decoy flares as a result.

The problem is that the sensor on those weapons has very poor discrimination (due to inadequate cooling among other things) and requires high contrast to get a good lock. Unless you have a hot blue sky target (like a nice jet exhaust pipe heading away from you), the probability of a hit is unacceptably low. And even then, it is well-known that the missile is very susceptible to clutter. The US does have some experience against this weapon system in a number of theaters, and while it was a nuisance, it was never particularly effective because it has a hard time discriminating targets.

[VOA]

"What of all Stingers that CIA give Afghanst who then sell on world market?"

I can't recall the details, but I think the general opinion was that
the Stingers distributed in Afghanistan were now so old that the propellant
and/or the batteries in the units would now be too degraded...thus, ineffective.