Lt. Col. West docked 2 month's pay

WND ^ | December 12, 2003 | Art Moore

[Grampa Dave]

fyi

[af_vet_1981]

Every male member of my family going back to the first world war served in uniform. Talking to those still living, not a one thinks what this man did was proper. Standing by while your men beat a prisoner.......

Okay, you introduced it so put up. What did your family say he should have done ?

[Poohbah]

Correct me if I'm wrong. This guy knew about a plot to murder our soldiers, did he not?

Never proven one way or the other. For all that we know, the guy made the story up when he thought the crazy American was going to execute him if he didn't say what the American wanted to hear, regardless of the truth of the words. That's the reason that this method of interrogation is frowned on by civilized countries.

[Hodar]

Standing by while your men beat a prisoner.......

Let's put things in context. The enemy does not wear a uniform, does not come under any recognized heirarchy, carries no visible indication of rank, and does not take it's orders from a central command. Thus, we are not talking about POW's, we are talking about cowardly 'illegal combatants' who hide among women and children (in fact, actively use pregnant women and children as shields). The military is placing restraints upon our troops need for self-defense that are not only not returned by the enemy, but place our troops in greater harm. Thus, IMHO what West did was within permissable actions.

However, if this were a case where we were fighting a war against another country, and the same events occured against a captured uniformed soldier; things would be entirely different.

[AppauledAtAppeasementConservat]

"Wasn't the man who was being questioned a civilian?" I seem to recall there were alot of 'civilians' in vietnam too...

[Hodar]

Never proven one way or the other. For all that we know, the guy made the story up when he thought the crazy American was going to execute him if he didn't say what the American wanted to hear, regardless of the truth of the words.

From the article:

The scared policeman then immediately disclosed the information, leading to the arrest of two Iraqis last August and cessation of attacks on West's 4th Infantry Division battalion.

Tough to argue with results like this, huh? If he made up the 'truth', he was amazingly accurate with his imagination.

[Lucy Lake]

I sent a check a few weeks ago, and received a nice thank you note, which is indeed gracious of the West family since they have been under so much stress with this idiotic action against Lt. Col. West.

[blam]

Jeff, will you 'sound-off' and advise on this subject, thanks.

[Ronin]

Morally right in my book is the Colonel getting as many of his troops home safe. If that takes scaring the crap out of an Iraqi spy sent in to prevent that from happening, so be it.

If you think that is morally wrong, that's OK, too.

[dwilli]

Do you have any idea why armed forces wear uniforms?
It ain't so they will look pretty in parades.

[Poohbah]

The scared policeman then immediately disclosed the information, leading to the arrest of two Iraqis last August and cessation of attacks on West's 4th Infantry Division battalion.

You've just given a prime example of ergo hoc, propter hoc. Chronology does not equal causality.

Tough to argue with results like this, huh?

Actually, it's ridiculously easy.

If he made up the 'truth', he was amazingly accurate with his imagination.

That's the problem. There is no demonstrated correlation between those particular two Iraqis getting arrested and the cessation of the attacks. If I were in the fedayeen leadership, I'd back off after ANY arrest as an OPSEC measure, and to allow the Americans to get overconfident.

And, since then, there have been more attacks.

[Ispy4u]

Funny how the end of the attacks also coincided with operation Iron Hammer? Oh, but you forgot about that right?

Just because the policeman told him something does not in any way prove it was the truth.

Results? I haven't heard one word about the Iraqi's that were arrested, were they saddam loyalists, fedayyeen, some other breed of islamokazi? If they were arrested and were the key, why has no reporter given one iota of information about them?

Maybe because it was really operation Iron Hammer and not the unauthorized actions during interrogation of one prisoner? Think about it.

[William Tell]

AppauledAtAppeasementConservat said: "I seem to recall there were alot of 'civilians' in vietnam too..."

That is correct. And some of the most shameful atrocities committed by our side involved losing sight of the fact that not everyone who lived in the same village as these "civilians" deserved to be killed.

[Poohbah]

Morally right in my book is the Colonel getting as many of his troops home safe. If that takes scaring the crap out of an Iraqi spy sent in to prevent that from happening, so be it.

He was identified as a spy based solely on the testimony of a "confidential informant.":

How can you tell when a confidential informant is probably lying to you?

[Yudan]

I'm in for $20 if y'all tell me how....

[XtreMarine]

As a lifer Marine still serving I'd produly follow this Army officer anywhere anytime. Taking $5K is really petty. He will make it up on the first night of speaking but it should not be like that. He should be wearing a miniture medal denoting his actions in saving lives. American lives. Again I say, if the CIA or FBI used LtCol West tactics majbe, just maybe 9-11 would have been different......

[RightOnline]

I think you have a great idea. FReepers should pick up this guy's tab. I'm in............

[Psycho_Runner]

I was never a commissioned offcier, only a noncom and I can tell you your arguement is senseless. Moral Equivalency is politically correct that the terrorists don't beleive in. The police officer was a combatant in civilian clothes, therefore a spy. Spies get summary execution.

LTC West wouldv'e got a medal in WW2. The problem is we are in WW3. World War III combatants need to use Miranda Rights in dealing with low self esteem terrorists.

[jackbill]

Wasn't the man who was being questioned a civilian?

The man being questioned was an Iraqi policeman, recruited by the Coalition Provisional Authority. He was, in effect, an undercover sleeper working for the Baathists or the other dead enders.

To consider this creep as a POW is insane. He was/is a terrorist. And the rules of engagement against terrorists had better be different from those for POW's or our troops are in a no-win situation.

[Lucy Lake]

Pinging Calpernia who can provide us with the address.