[CHICAGOFARMER]

As an experienced firearms owner have recently been advocating a change in police procedure. Police current policy is "shoot to kill". In today's "law enforcement officer" "swat force mentality" the number of innocent citizens who will be killed by police will continue to increase.

Today's police policy is to draw first, it used to be called a traffic stop, today it is called a felony stop. A felony stop allows the officers to draw weapons point the firearm at the victim with his finger on the trigger. Cops with their light specially build firearms with very light trigger pulls is a death just waiting to happen.

In the old days, peace officers kept the peace. Today's uniformed officer has a loaded gun, with a bullet in the pipe, and a finger on the trigger. In the old days peace officers would shoot to wound. This is not allowed today by today’s police policy.

I am fully aware of wound ballistics, perps on acid, reaction time, etc. But to kill 300 citizens annual who are innocent is not acceptable. This is 3000 citizens every ten years.

I am always taking self-defense classes just for experience and training. It is not uncommon to find a young lady waiting for a basic training handgun class. I strike up a conversation only to find she has just been accepted by the Chicago police department and has never fired a gun. I would not want to be on the wrong end of the firearm during her rookie training. If she does not continue to practice, she would be even more dangerous on the street later in her career. This is not a sexist issue.

This policy by police departments to always have a bullet in the pipe if you are in law enforcement is WRONG. Why? I have served on various city boards of directors and have made friends with police officers. As we chew the fat our conversation gets around to loaded firearms. I have had more than one officer tell of a scary moment in his career where he has looked down at his holstered firearm while sitting at his desk and see it cocked. We continue to see police officers shot themselves unloading their firearm, or cleaning their firearm.

If a police officer draws his service revolver 1000 times in his career, perhaps once in his entire career he will have to fire. In the old days a revolver was carried with the hammer on a blank chamber. Today's semi automatic can be racked in milli seconds if the scene goes wrong, perhaps once in his lifetime. John Lott says that if a firearm is drawn 2000 times only once will it need to be fired for a citizen. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander.

I am of the opinion that the policy should be changed from carrying a firearm with a bullet in the pipe to an empty pipe, or a hammer resting on an empty chamber.

Remember 300 innocent citizens are killed every year in firearm accidents when only the police officer has the gun.

What is your opinion?

[Monty22]

They are now law ENFORCEMENT officers who will aim a gun at you faster than anything else.

It's a disgrace. I almost wish the police force was unarmed or disbanded and left up to citizens (whom the cops are supposed to be anyway)

[tet68]

All at once, that can hardly be an accidental discharge!

[RS]

"Cops accidentally kill 300 citizens annually

Ahmed Diallo, 22, shot 41 times and killed by New York City police officers, Feb. 4, 1999. "


Sure dosen't seem like this one counts as an accident...

[ambrose]

The headline is misleading. Most of these deaths were not an accidental.

[Judith Anne]

I disagree with the title, for starters.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

I suggest you get behind cover, your post will draw fire down on your position soon.

To many here, LEO's can do no wrong.

[Cultural Jihad]

That is a sad statistic, but let me know when you find a society wherein no one needs to be armed or have police services.

[eno_]

Ending the Drug War would disemploy tens of thousands of armed LEOs instantly, and free up the resources to reform the rest.

[Porterville]

Couldn't agree more, 1/2 of all police do not belong. They are uneducated mop-heads with too much power/ego. The other half are well educated only trying to do a good job.... The problem is this, the dumb asses are encouraged to be cops while the educated are not...

[cmsgop]

Ping

[Diddle E. Squat]

How many innocent LEO's are killed each year in the line of duty? 300 means nothing without other relevant figures to put it into perspective.

What's the number, something like 50+ children a year drown in buckets?

[dasboot]

A minor point: a traffic stop is not a felony stop. A felony stop is a procedure used when there is probable cause to believe the occupant(s) are armed AND dangerous.

One more thing. There is a lot of chatter about ego and poor judgememt among cops lately. This is, I think, based upon fact. The old way of having new guys "broken-in" by the vets on the department are generally gone. The new paradigm has it that this was destructive to the training of the newbies, and a preventative for the assumption of 'generational' bad habits. The actual reason, I think, is that the old guys remember about things like probable cause....a concept largely abandoned by the automatonic yoots on the force today. Don't want to confuse the new guys, do we?

[narses]

1 - I doubt the numbers. I'd like to see the source.
2 - I doubt that all of the dead are "innocent" or "unarmed"
3 - Disarming the cops is as stupid as disarming the honest people.

[conservativecorner]

With a national population of about 3 hundred million I would say law enforcement does a remarkable job of protecting the public from those who would do them harm. Many of the Cincinnati cases had the deceased using weapons against the police, yet the main stream news media keep reporting and insisting that the deceased were unarmed. Unbelievable!

[ChefKeith]

Hydrant Mark

[Patriot1998]

It's a shame that the police now days get away with murder! I quess that's what happens in police states? I say the police have way to much money and power. It's time to scale back and show them that they are not in control of the people any more IF it's not too late.

[dasboot]

About "ninja SWAT" guys, and the "broad brush" with which some paint them:

Allow me to tell you about the leader of my department's SWAT team.

He is Sergeant Arthur S. He is a Vietnam vet, shot in the leg there. He is the yahoo that got the assignment to storm a house where a friend of the chief was holed up with a gun several years ago. He got shot in the chest for his service...he was saved by his vest. The shooter's life was saved. He is an ARMY Reserve platoon leader who was plopped in the middle of the Iraqi desert in 91 for six months doing recon. He was next to that huge ammo dump that got blown up with all those bad chemicals that gave a lot of guys 'syndromes'. He never got sick or complained. He just got back from Iraq again. He was doing house raids in Bahgdad searching for members of the '52' and their followers and weapons. Shot at every day for several months. He's still a little shook, but he'll be allright. He is the nicest guy you'd ever meet. He's my hero. And he's a guy who you all would like to have here on FR.

Their not all the same, cops.

[dasboot]

About 'non-lethal' weapons:

My department began using 'beanbag' equipped shotguns about two years ago. These have saved a couple lives already. They work. One guy who tried his dangnest to get shot to death ended up with five nasty bruises on his thighs instead of on the ME's slab. He was major drugged-up, and it took five beanbags to convince him that he was in actual pain. Cogent bad guys are convinced more readily.

The trick is to use this force appropriately. Training is on-going and getting honed to a keen edge. All good.

[DonQ]

Altho the title and first sentence speak of innocent people being "accidentally" killed by police, the vast majority of the examples given are not accidental in the slightest. The killing might be called "unjustified" or "precipitous" or even "arbitrary" .... but not accidental. When the cops aimed and shot at someone, when they beat someone to death, they intended to kill him or at least bring him near to death, there wasn't anything "accidental" about it.

[Drango]

FRY MUMIA