Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 24-30

Various | November 23, 2003 | sweetliberty

[sweetliberty]

(Thread 10 - November 24-30) Link back to thread 9 (Nov. 19-23)

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Contained in Thread 9:

Carla Iyers testimony, Terri's 1990 physical exam and treatment plan, contact information for Judges Demers, Greer and Baird, judicial misconduct and how to report it, address to send cards for Terri's birthday, contact information for Bernie McCabe, link to friend of the court brief filed on behalf of Florida legislature, police report following Terri's collapse and Michael Schiavo: Profile of a Sociopath.

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Click on pic for Terri's website

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This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

This thread will stay up through next Sunday. I will be in Kentucky for Thanksgiving, but I will still be able to check in with y'all, just not as often.

A reminder: please do not post personal information on the public forum. We have lots of folks on scene down in Florida and we don't want them having any problems with the death squad.

INDEX OF TERRI THREADS ON FR

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Latest threads on Terri's Case:

Appeals Court Overturns Stay, Lawsuit Against Terri's Law Proceeds

Michael: Block Bone Scan Showing Possible Abuse of Terri Schiavo

Court lifts stay in Schiavo - Bush battle

Governor Seeks New Trial Over Brain Damaged Woman's Wishes

Governor Jeb Bush Seeks Full, Fair Hearing to Defend Terri's Law

Where did word "vegetative" come from, anyway? That's a loaded term that devalues human life.

Update on Terri's Law

Judge in Terri's Law Case Refuses to Step Down Despite Possible Bias

It's Not Only About Terri Schiavo

Behind Scenes: How Terri Schiavo was saved ( ????? )

[terrasol]

This is an editorial in the Palm Beach Post. Below it is
the response I sent them.

Tuesday, November 25
Bush too late on Schiavo
www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion/content/auto/epaper/editions/tuesday/opinion_f32ce84801f302130020.html

Palm Beach Post Editorial
Tuesday, November 25, 2003

In the case of Terri Schiavo, Gov. Bush continues to put the
state where it does not belong and continues to show that
his intervention is more about politics than Ms. Schiavo's welfare.

Three years ago, after seven years of legal dispute and
extensive testimony, a Pinellas County judge ruled that the
best evidence supports Michael Schiavo's claim that his wife
did not want to be kept alive if she became brain-damaged
beyond the reach of any therapy. Doctors have determined
that Ms. Schiavo, who had no living will, is in a persistent
vegetative state. Just weeks ago, a final court ruling allowed
removal of a feeding tube.

Then the Legislature passed an exception to the state's
death and dying law, the governor signed an executive order,
and the tube was reinserted. Mr. Schiavo challenged the
action as unconstitutional. Last week, Gov. Bush's attorney,
Ken Connor, asked the court to take up the case again,
before a jury. The governor also wants a new judge.

He should lose on both counts. Mr. Connor argues that the
governor deserves to be heard because, well, he wasn't three
years ago. At the time, though, the case hadn't drawn
nationwide attention from the social conservatives who make
up the Republican base. If the Legislature and governor had
wanted to violate separation of powers earlier, they had a
chance. Gov. Bush also is peeved because Pinellas County
Circuit Judge Douglas Baird, who is hearing the appeal
of "Terri's Law," has ruled once for Mr. Schiavo. In fact,
judges may issue several rulings in the course of a case.

Gov. Bush claims that the priority is Ms. Schiavo, not politics.
If so, why did he retain Mr. Connor, who until recently led the
Family Research Council? It is a national advocacy group that
opposes abortion and same-sex marriage. Why does Gov.
Bush want to drag out the case, not resolve it? Why does Mr.
Connor argue that state intervention into a personal decision
increases Ms. Schiavo's privacy?

A report in The St. Petersburg Times suggested that Terri
Schiavo's parents, Mary and Bob Schindler, split with their
son-in-law because they wanted $10,000 from the $300,000
that went to him from the malpractice award in their
daughter's case. (Another $700,000 has gone to her care.)
Terri Schiavo's non-life and exploitation linger on.


This is the letter I sent them. It is doubtful
that they will publish it. If they do, I will
revise my opinion of their low calibre
reportage.

Dear Editor,

Your 11-25 editorial “Bush too late on Schiavo”
contains precipitous jumps of logic, misrepresentations
and a general deficit in grasping the issues.

With one such leap, you conclude that Governor
Bush’s intervention is unwarranted and politically
motivated. Your premise is that “seven years
of extensive testimony” led Judge Greer to rule
that Ms Schiavo “did not want to be kept alive if
she became brain-damaged beyond the reach of any
therapy.” A rudimentary investigation by you would
have discovered medical expert statements that
Ms Schiavo is an “excellent candidate” for a
number of delineated therapies. More fastidious
homework efforts would have alerted you to
serious flaws in your premise.

The “seven years of testimony” knew of no wish
of Ms Schiavo’s. The memory of such a wish was
not resurrected in Mr. Schiavo until 1998. What
he finally did recall, was that “sometime in the
mid-1980s” Ms Schiavo had casually commented after
a hospital type TV episode that she would not
want to be kept alive by “anything artificial”.
Apart from evidentiary standards that cannot
endow anecdotal material of this sort with the
force of a living will, the term “anything artificial”
must be interpreted in the conceptual context
of understanding that prevailed during the
“mid-1980s”.

Feeding tubes were not artificial life support
until a 1990 Florida Statute amendment made them
such. During the time of Ms Schiavo’s purported
statement, discontinuing life support meant
turning off a ventilator. Then, and for five
more years, removing a feeding tube to effect
death would have been a felony offense.

Unless one is prepared to attribute remarkable
clairvoyance to Ms Schiavo, she could have no
more envisioned the procedure of death by tube
removal than a Nineteenth Century person could
have referred to air travel when discussing
journeys.

Your “best evidence” paraphrase falls short of
Judge Greer’s finding Mr. Schiavo’s anecdote
“clear and convincing evidence”. It was scant
and the only evidence, remembered thirteen years
after the fact, but not during the malpractice
jury trial six years earlier. Judge Greer’s
retroactive attribution of a feeding tube removal
to Terri’s expressed intent when the concept did
not exist is creative but not sound jurisprudence.


Your thinking Ms Schiavo’s feeding tube removal
prudent is another leap of logic. This time your
premise is that “Doctors have determined that Ms.
Schiavo… is in a persistent vegetative state.”
You omit that other doctors determined differently.
Two neurologists hired by Mr. Schiavo diagnosed
PVS, as was expected of them. Two hired by the
Schindler family predictably dissented. Judge
Greer appointed a fifth expert as independent
tiebreaker, whose opinion made a final 3:2 in
favor of PVS. On the strength of this, Judge
Greer ordered the tube removed.

The court-appointed physician Dr. Peter Bambakidis
lacked qualification for providing an impartial
review of the medical evidence. Mr. Schiavo’s
attorney George Felos had breached protocol by
failing to disclose his relationship with Dr.
Bambakidis, with whose brother Gust he shared
membership in the Greek fraternal organization
AHEPA. This conflict of interest by attorney
Felos calls for disqualifying Dr. Bambakidis as
independent expert witness. The resulting 2:2
medical opinion is insufficient to support
removal of the feeding tube.

Florida Statutes pertaining to the rights of
elderly and disabled persons entitled Ms Schiavo
to counsel and access to the court. She was
wrongly deprived of her rights by the dismissal
of her guardian ad litem at the insistence of
attorney Felos.

Even a liberal assessment makes it clear that
due process failed. Because of these and numerous
other irregularities the proceedings did not meet
the standards of jurisprudence delineated in
Florida Statutes. It is for this reason that
a public outcry prompted the Florida Legislature
to intervene on behalf of Ms Schiavo.

The passage of Terri’s law empowered Governor
Bush to issue an executive order. While Terri’s
Law may eventually be found unconstitutional,
this is not a given departure point for your
conclusion that the Governor “should lose on
both counts”. Taking “up the case again, before
a jury” with “a new judge” does not depend on
defending the constitutionality of Terri’s Law,
but on the need to rectify the miscarriage of
justice that necessitated Terri’s Law as an
eleventh hour measure preventing the
victim’s death.

Your further arguments against Governor Bush’s
involvement have no bearing on the legal issues.
His choice of attorney may not meet your approval,
but is his prerogative. Your question “why does
Mr. Connor argue that state intervention into a
personal decision increases Ms. Schiavo's privacy"
has a simple answer. Since her rights were
violated and due process was denied, the nature
of Ms Schiavo’s private wishes was not discerned
by the court. Her privacy is therefore safeguarded
and supported by the Governor’s intervention.

You quote a “report” in The St. Petersburg Times
that the Schindler’s “split with their son-in-law
because they wanted $10,000 from the $300,000 that
went to him from the malpractice award in their
daughter's case.” I refer you to the letter by
Robert S. Schindler to Michael Schiavo from July
16, 1993, the full text of which is in the record.
Mr. Schindler reminded his son in law of commitments
to use award money to “enhance Terri’s medical and
neurological care.” This was in line with Mr.
Schiavo’s testimony, on the basis of which the
jury awarded the money, with the provision that
$700,000 was to be put in trust for Ms Schiavo.

Your quoting of the St. Petersburg Times fantasy
that “(Another $700,000 has gone to her care.)”,
does not exonerate you. It is a matter of record
that none of the $700,000 went to Terri’s care.
Mr. Schiavos paid $550,000 of it to attorney
Felos for assistance in seeking Ms Schiavo’s
death. Another $90,000 went to attorney Barbara
Bushnell for related services. The remaining
$60,000 of Ms Schiavo’s trust fund are still
in Mr. Schiavo’s possession.

If you want to, you can send them your own comment:
www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion/content/info/mail.html

[msmagoo]

He sure likes to sow his seed, doesn't he?
I think the need to have multiple illegitimate children with different women (if the #3 and #4 out-of-wedlock children exist) is also an indicator of an self-centered, egotistical personality who believes ordinary rules do not apply to him.

[terrasol]

Sorry, I accidentally posted this twice.
Don't know how to delete.

[terrasol]

You are right, but the day will come when they
won't be able to say that they did not know.
We'll have the prove that they were told.

[msmagoo]

I would like to know why anyone takes offense at Bush's executive order, on behalf of a disabled person. What is legally or morally acceptable about a guardianship loophole giving a HINO exclusive rights over another human beings' life? Do the words "Liberty and Justice for ALL" apply only to the favored among us? Bush saw the potential for "abuse, exploitation or mistake" and corrected it. He is to be commended for taking a stand against judicial tyranny.

"Whatsoever ye do to the least of my brethren, that ye do unto Me."

[pickyourpoison]

It wouldn't hurt to start a separate thread with that Palm Beach Editoral and let other freepers send some hot letters.

[terrasol]

pickyourpoison,
That sounds good, but I don't know
how to do that. This board has a
different format from what I'm used
to, and I sometimes get lost. Like
When I posted the last piece twice
because I couldn't find it. Maybe
you could give me a couple of
pointers.

[terrasol]

msmagoo,

That's exactly how I feel too. It amazes me
to see the irrationality in people. It's
almost as if they were under hypnosis. The
heart speaks so clearly about Terri, I just
don't understand how any human being doesn't
get it. I thought the Governor did a great
thing stepping up for Terri. People are so
entrenched in their political views that they
can't make allowances. If somebody does the
right thing, I don't care if they're Republican
or Democrat. Young or old. Pretty, ugly, big,
little. It makes no difference. But these
entrenched views want everything boxed. If
somebody doesn't like Bush then it makes no
difference what he does. It will always be
wrong. How stupid to think that way.

[msmagoo]

I advise anyone who thinks Terri's Law is wrong or unconstitutional to actually read Bush's response of Nov. 19.

He clearly lays out the concerns and limitations of the law, and why it adds a layer of protection for the rights of disabled people.

Most of the folks who are against Terri's Law or Bush for ordering the feeding tube restored are totally clueless about the facts of the case and the legal arguments behind it.

The Estelle Browning case, on which Felos bases his right-to-kill-Terri litigation, is dissimilar to the circumstances in the Schiavo case. Mrs. Browning had written two living wills, specifically including a wish to refuse a feeding tube, and had less than 1 year to live at the time of the suit brought on her behalf.

The Browning case was about honoring her written wishes.

The Schiavo case is about a HINO, a proxy who won a million dollar rehab award and spent none of those funds for rehabilitation, asking the court's permission to execute his wife. Conflicting hearsay testimony, financial interests, a live-in girlfriend with his two children waiting in the wings, and no written, legally binding directive from Terri herself, make this case quite susceptible to "abuse, exploitation or mistake."

"Right to die" is not the same as a "right to kill" and Browning was never intended to be interpreted as such.

OK, off my soapbox now. :)

[T'wit]

There were three...

Remember the Lizzie Borden jingle? Perhaps Michael, George and George should have jingles too, especially if they get away with murder (as Lizzie probably did; she was not convicted). Here's a start. Other doggerel invited :-)

(1)
Michael Schiavo beats his wife,
Chokes her till he wrecks her life.
Steals her money, puts her down,
Starves her dead and goes to town.

(2)
Georgie Greer, your soul is black,
You pick on girls who can't fight back.
When Terri begged Communion Bread,
You pulled her feeding tube instead.

(3)
Baird be nimble, Greer be quick,
Kill the halt, the lame, the sick.
Kill the aged, kill the blind,
Kill anyone -- hey, they won't mind.
Kill the Christians, kill the Jews,
If they can't speak, it's what they'd choose.
They've no need of earthly things:
Kill their cats and steal their rings.

[pickyourpoison]

Lost cause here, I don't know how either

[a5478]

I'm really getting fed up with the journalistic license taken with the Op pieces. Below a letter to Palm Beach Post.

"Dear Sirs:
Your Op piece regarding the Schiavo case is one more example of why traditional journalism is being relegated to irrelevance.

Governor Bush and the Florida legislature responded to an astounding number of individuals who are interested in the outcome of the Schiavo case. Your assumption that all of these people who activated are right wing extreme religious zealots is archaic.

Thousands of people are familiar with every word written or spoken regarding the case since litigation began.

Informed people understand that this is a case in which a disabled woman has been criminally denied treatment and therapy for which she was granted 1.25 million dollars by a jury.

Find out how much of that 1.25 million award has actually been spent toward therapy and treatment for Ms. Schiavo. Regurgitating the drivel from other Op pieces to spout sanctimonious nothingness in light of the actual facts available to everyone on the planet is journalistic pablum and nobody buys it."

Will try not to be so hateful in the future, but just had a gut full this a.m.

[MSCASEY]

Good I am glad that they are seeing her!

MCD

[KDubRN]

Palm Beach Post Editorial
Tuesday, November 25, 2003


BRAVO, BRAVO

[Dante3]

This poem sure sums it up.

[KDubRN]

Michael Schiavo beats his wife,
Chokes her till he wrecks her life.
Steals her money, puts her down,
Starves her dead and goes to town.

I need to make a sign with this and carry at the hospice.
The cops are sure to love me then.

[nicmarlo]

most excellent letter!

[KDubRN]

Call to action here........
Anybody who wishes to donate monies to the Terri Schindler Foundation to be used for T-shirts to sell, please send checks, money orders

Schindler Foundation
4615 Gulf Blvd.
#104-103
St Petersburg, Fl 33706

Indicate the money is for the T's.

We felt this was an excellent way to spread the word on Terri, as per Cyn's suggestion. They are currently thinking of the cards as well. All proceeds will be donated to Terri's Foundation.
Thanks a bunch Cyn

[agrace]

The use of the word "guise" in this article is offensive and insulting. A better use of the word might be "in the guise of objective reporting, Ms Miner showed up for work."

OK, that line is priceless.

[msmagoo]

Pat Anderson's comment could apply to quite a few of the Pinella County 'Circus' Court judges, too!