Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 19-23

Various | November 18, 2003 | sweetliberty

[sweetliberty]

(Thread 9 - November 19-23) Link back to thread 8 (Nov. 14-18)

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Contained in Thread 8:

Contact info for Judge Greer and the 6th DCA, link to argument between Pat Anderson and Judge Greer, Judge Baird's predetermination of the case, timeline of Terri's case, statutes being violated (also here) in Terri's case, contact information for Bernie McCabe and Jay Wolfson ( link to a better address for Bernie McCabe), super contact list for Florida courts, legislature, Senate and Washington, link to Gov. Bush's amicus curiae brief, Responding to Patients in the Persistent Vegetative State , a Christian parspective, PC93's letter of complaint against Michael Schiavo to demand criminal investigation and more contact information, contact information for the Florida Committee on guardianship, testimony of Jackie Rhodes, interesting article Is Wife-icide Legal In Florida(?), contact information for investigative ops and judicial operations, transcript of the Hannity and Colmes interview with the Schindlers, links to transcripts of other shows on Terri's case, contact information for Fox News shows, address to send Terri's birthday cards and contact information for advocacy center investigating Terri's abuse and neglect.

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Click on pic for Terri's website

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This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

INDEX OF TERRI THREADS ON FR

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Latest threads on Terri's Case:

A "Painless" Death?

Was Terri Schiavo Beaten in 1990? (Nat Hentoff)

His Fight to Give Terri Schiavo Communion

Terri's family appeals to Oprah fans

Terri Schiavo's Fight

Court Issues New Stay in Schiavo Case

Judge calls Terri's Law intrusive

Mom kept hope for girl who came out of vegetative state

Hannity & Colmes Tonight - Monday, 11-17-03 - Terri Schindler-Schiavo's Parents

"Terri's Lights" Campaign Raises Awareness of Terri Schiavo's Plight

Catholic Media Coalition Declares November 30, 2003 "Theresa Schindler Schiavo Day"

Terri's dad: 'She's literally been a prisoner'

Husband's attorney seeks end to delays in Schiavo case

Terri's Threads on FreeRepublic.com - 18 Nov 2003 0351 PST

[Orlando]

Here's another question, when Bobby arrived at Terri apt
was MS still in his uniform/work chothes/shoes on,etc...
Did MS look drunk ?, or High on something ?

What time did MS call bobby ?

[Lovergirl]

Hey all,

I have been sick this week. Can anyone tell me what's going on? I can't seem to catch up. Thanks.

[fiesti]

it would be well for Terri to have an MRI asap as they are even more revealing and accurate from my understanding

[Dante3]

Glori Allred said she refused to have her father's feeding tube removed (it might have been Greta's show--I don't recall). Maybe we can get her to at least speak out in Terri's support.

[Orlando]

I agree 100%, if MS was on Drugs (Med's) and if they are for
severe depression, or Mental problem(s). Then he's not fit
to be guardian.

[pc93]

I believe the Schindler's that Michael called Terri's dad and Terri's dad told Michael to call 911 and that Terri's dad subsequently called Bobby to get his ass over there. Michael apparently lies he says he called 911 and then Bobby.

[cricket]

Bump for Terri. . .

[Orlando]

Thanks, would you know if MS was a drinker ?

[T'wit]

> I noticed that MS didn't state specifically what restaurant he was working at that night

Dagostino's Ristorante is mentioned in the police report as if MS mentioned it to the officer. McDonalds was evidently back in PA.

[fiesti]

It involved money.
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/11/23/Tampabay/Schiavo_clash_is_root.shtml

Todays Saint Petersburg Times.



this article is very biased IMHO>>>>>>>>>> in favor of Michael of course

[T'wit]

>> Do you know how many strippers are hot dog girls by day in the Tampa Bay area?

Nope. How did YOU find out? :-) :-)

[T'wit]

> Chris Reeves probably has a living will and a loving wife.

Yes, I believe so and of course, I don't really have anything but good wishes for him. I was just noting the usual snotty elitism of the left in making him an icon and grinding Terri's face into the mud.

[fiesti]

where did u find green plaid....the point of having a ribbon too is people will ask and can explain. This will help bring more aboard hopefully

[T'wit]

>> it would be well for Terri to have an MRI asap as they are even more revealing and accurate from my understanding

Good idea. Felos would be in court the next morning to file a motion to block it and explain why that would violate the constitution, invade Terri's privacy, and just irritate the heck out of the Hemlock Society. Keep thinking of good things for Terri. It's fun to make George work all night on new legal motions and then slither as fast as he can slither to court every morning.

[pc93]

http://www.tartantime.co.uk/assets/images/campbell2.jpg

[wisconsinconservative]

I got this in an e-mail a few days ago. I thought it was interesting. Fits MS to a tee. (and his ghoulish lawyer too!)


Note:
author's opinion is between the ***"s.

The Sociopathic traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare. Cleckley's book is used extensively in the training of FBI Profilers.


Michael Schiavo Profile of a Sociopath


A number of mind-manipulating cult leaders may exhibit many of the behavioral characteristics of a sociopath--an outstanding ability to charm and seduce followers. Since they appear apparently normal, they are not easily recognizable as deviant or disturbed. Although only a trained professional can make a diagnosis, it is important to be able to recognize the personality type in order to avoid further abuse. These traits also apply to a one-on-one cultic relationship.


***As a trained Professional in aberrant Psychology, I will add something more on a personal note applicable to Michael Schiavo where needed.***



Glibness/Superficial Charm
Language can be used without effort by them to try and confuse and convince their audience. Captivating storytellers that exude self-confidence, they can spin a web that intrigues others. Since they are persuasive, they have the capacity to destroy their critics verbally or emotionally.

***Story telling could be made up situations of abuse that allegedly
happened in childhood that would cause them to "not understand" a specific
situation that their intended victim has addressed. Or to evoke pity or empathy from their victim. It's all about them. Narcissistic. The more Narcississtic,the more I lean towards sociopathic.***

Sociopaths and Psychopaths have low tolerance to alcohol.
Though not currently using, their intolerance is an issue and a signal that something is wrong with the brain. Displayed in their behavior when exposed to drink or drugs. Crisis. They are always in crisis or creating a crisis for others.


***Displayed by Michael Schiavo, being the long suffering spouse of Terri. Spending every dime of Terri's Lawsuit money to sight to put her to death. He does so with malice and intent. It's all about HIM.Indeed, there is no crisis for him at all, the crisis is created for his victim. He has displayed this tendancy over and over again, while being the main
care giver for his wife Terri. Fourteen years of crisis created by Michael
Schiavo should be an alert to all concerned.*****


Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving
behaviors permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They dominate and humiliate their victims.

***Constant refusal to address the medical or personal needs of his wife indeed shows Michaels hostility towards his wife, Terri. Terri is his means to an end. She is dominated by Michael every day and in every way. He
humiliates her over and over again. Publicly and privately, Terri is Michaels punching bag. He brutally enforces inadequate care upon her while the public,attorney's and Judges look on. Now that Michael has Terri in a vulnerable position,his abuse of her would be constant with no let up.****


Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right." Craves adulation and attendance. Must be the center of attention with their own fantasies as the "spokesman for God," "enlightened," "leader of humankind," etc.
Creates an us-versus-them mentality.

***Michael displays this grandiose behavior as well. He is the "Leader for Terri's right to die". It is an us vs them mentality and he shows this everyday. Every moment of the day. Except of course, when he indulges himself in his sexual pleasures.***

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities.Extremely convincing and able to pass lie detector tests.

***Michael is a pathological liar. Nothing he says should be considered reputable. No woman or man, at the tender and youthful age of 27 would talk in length and not at all about their wish to not be on life support. Any ICU nurse would back me on this. I had extensive experience in a hospital setting for several years and it simply NEVER happened.*****

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities.Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims.The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.


***Not even the Law is standing in the way of Michael's insistence on killing his wife. He botched the job the first time around, and the State has actively allowed him to continue the brutality and to carry out this brutality in public. Clearly, there is no end to his abuse of his victim, Terri, his wife.***


Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion, it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

***The proof of a sociopath's lack of feelings is directly related to the brutality he shows towards his victim. He cannot feel anything and his victim suffers the worst abuse because he cannot feel anything. The closest a sociopath can get to "true" feelings is thru the reaction of his victim. Sadly,this would cause him to be even more brutal to his victim because their suffering is the closest he can get to emotion or feelings.****

Incapacity for Love
While they talk about "God's love" they are unable to give or receive it. Since they do not believe in the genuineness of their followers' love, they are very harsh in testing it from their devotees and expect them to feel guilt for their failings. Expects unconditional surrender.

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge, yet testing the beliefs of their followers with bizarre
rules, punishments and behaviors. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are
normal

***This is part of the create a crisis the sociopath inflicts on his wife, friends or family members.***


Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to emphasize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them. Their skills are used to exploit, abuse and exert power. Since the follower cannot believe their leader would callously hurt them, they rationalize the behavior as necessary for their (or the group's) own "good" and deny the abuse. When devotees become aware of the exploitation it feels like a "spiritual rape" to them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval
produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating
hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others. The followers only see them as near perfect.

***This would apply to the assault Michael carried out against his
wife, Terri, 14 years ago and for which she is still suffering.***

A Sociopath can explode in rage when all his antics simply no longer work against his intended victim. Most victims are accustomed to their rantings and may not see the signal that "this" rage is the one that will kill them.

The victim does not always see their demise as a possibility, because they are generally adept at dealing with them specifically if they have done so with success in the past. The rage can happen for no apparent reason as they are good at turning it on and off.

Sociopaths often feign a lack of memory, when in fact, what they are telling you is they lack feelings. Emotions, accountability, conscience or remorse. I don't remember carries and explains a multitude of sins and allows the sociopath off the hook for this slight and extreme memory lapse.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.


***This is critical information. Because they cannot feel and lack
accountability, there isn't a sociopath who refrains from acting up while young. This includes runaways. Anything to cause the most pain or grief to their family members and parents.****


Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or
indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blame their followers or others outside their group. Blame reinforces passivity and obedience and produces guilt, shame, terror and conformity in the followers.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Totalist leaders frequently practice promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape
and sexual acting out of all sorts. This is usually kept hidden from all but the

inner circle. Stringent sexual control of their followers, such as forced
breakups and divorces, removal of children from parents, rules for dating, etc.

***There is a physical reason why a sociopath is promiscuous. They
are capable of having sex 24/7. Yes, you read me correctly. Excess in sex is just another manifestation of sociopathy. The reason is that sociopaths have a heightened sence of feeling in their genitalia. This is the one and only thing they can "feel" and in abundance. This is why they have affairs all over the place.***

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future. Many groups claim as their goal world-domination or other utopian promises.Great contrast between the leader's opulent lifestyle and the followers'impoverishment. Support by gifts and donations from the followers who are pressured to give through fear and guilt. Highly sensitive to their own pain and health.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image and that of the group as needed to avoid prosecution and to increase income and to recruit a range of members. Is able to adapt or relocate as needed to preserve the group. Can resurface later with a new name, a new front group and a new twist on the scam.




Other Related Qualities:


- Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
- Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
- Authoritarian
- Secretive
- Paranoid
- Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
- Conventional appearance
- Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
- Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
- Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their
- victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
- Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
- Incapable of real human attachment to another
- Unable to feel remorse or guilt
- Extreme narcissism and grandiose
- May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

[pollywog]

I believe the Schindler's that Michael called Terri's dad and Terri's dad told Michael to call 911 and that Terri's dad subsequently called Bobby to get his ass over there. Michael apparently lies he says he called 911 and then Bobby.

Would there not be records of the calls? and if so the order they were made? Sounds easy enough to me......

[T'wit]

Quite an article. Thanks for posting it. Michael has interesting company in recent times: Charles Manson, Jim Jones, Ted Bundy, Bill Clinton.

[pc93]

Yes, someone sent me this e-mail:

This was posted on the St. Pete's Forum by one of the posters. His remarks are below this link. The link the c&p remark came from is:
http://forums.sptimes.com/Forums/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=006626&p=13

Hmmm, the Shindlers testimony under oath seems to have been a tad different from what they now imply, don't you think ?
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There certainly seems to be a descrepancy between the testimony of Michael "the loving, caring husband" who for at least three years did everything he could for his stricken wife and the uncaring monster his detractors portray today.
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Now where is the truth likely to lie ?
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Perhaps someone forget that they testified to all this or hoped that no one would go back and look at the court records.
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The more you lie, the harder it gets to keep the story straight.

Link to the newspaper article:

Tampabay: Schiavo clash is rooted in cash

http://www.sptimes.com/2003/11/23/Tampabay/Schiavo_clash_is_root.shtml

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Seems like they are trying to say that the Schindlers are lying anent certain money issues.. regardless, the monetary issues do not negate the fact of Terri's retained rights, etc. The money can be raised for her rehabilitation and support. #$$^ Michael.

[pc93]

Someone want to post to this guys blog?

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http://www.blogd.com/archives/000341.html

Michael Schiavo has gotten an incredibly bad rap in the past month, due to a concerted smear campaign fed by so-called right-to-life advocates. If you recall, Schiavo is the man whose wife fell into a persistent vegetative state fourteen years ago. After many years of attempted rehabilitation, experienced doctors concluded that she was beyond any hope of recovery, with her cerebral cortex atrophied to the point of being completely replaced by spinal fluid.

When Schiavo finally decided that there was no hope six years ago, he followed his wife's stated wish that she not be kept alive by artificial means in a vegetative state, and tried to have her feeding tubes removed. Her parents, after a long absence from the scene, stepped in and fought the decision in courts, bringing in a specialist who said that enough brain material remained to bring her back--but then, this was the same doctor trying to sell them on a treatment he developed, one that Florida officials charge is fraudulent. The parents are also being influenced and supported by right-to-life groups, with an obvious political agenda on hand.

In order to garner public support, they released a long string of vicious lies and accusations--that he tried to strangle her, that she wanted to divorce him so he tried to kill her, that he was in it for the money, that he denied her rehabilitation, that he denied the parents access--really devastating stuff. Videotape was released which seemed to show Terri as being alert and aware, even trying to communicate. So much public sympathy was generated that Florida politicians were pressured into passing a law specifically to keep Terri alive.

Of course, it all turned out to be fake. Her state was induced by abnormally low potassium levels, there was never any sign of abuse or strangling despite close examination by doctors, the money went into a trust for Terri's care, and Michael gave Terri years of rehabilitation and even studied to become a nurse himself. The videotape falls apart when you look at it carefully--you can tell it has been edited. Not a continuous stream of images like a regular videotape--rather, a clip here, a clip there, obviously heavily edited to make it appear as though she is responding, with the majority of video showing her not responding left out.

After suffering this assault for weeks, Michael Schiavo finally came out and appeared with his lawyer on Larry King Live, accounting for himself very well. If you are one of the people who feels strongly that Terri is really OK and Michael was virtually a criminal, you should feel obligated to hear his side--you will likely change your mind. The transcript is available here. http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0310/27/lkl.00.html