Bonds wins sixth NL MVP Award

Major League Baseball ^ | November 18th, 2003 | Chris Shuttlesworth

[PISANO]

dillution of pitching

I have though of that and WHILE I AGREE it EXITS and that it is the reason for INCREASED HR output that DOES NOT explain BB hitting 74 in ONE year and NEVER even 50 any other. The dilution of pitching has been existent for years. Also see my previous post concerning INJURIES preventing something from happening.

I really don't KNOW if BB or MM were/are on steroids or if all MLB players are, I believe it to be a factor but NOT one that will answer my question.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

He hit 49 HRs which showed that any alleged steroid use had little factor.

You're really downplaying the difference between 49 and 70, when no one had hit 60 in 40 years. I think steroid use "had big factor" with McGwire. (and Sosa and Bonds, as well)

[discostu]

Actually he came close to being hurt every season. And yes we do have an infamous "if only", here check his stats:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?statsId=3918

You can see a few years where you can make a good argument that "if only" he'd have beaten the record. Also remember the guy gets walked more often than most dogs, that holds down his stats and creates more "if only" action.

[GSWarrior]

Kent has spoken about him

Kent is even less liked by teammates than is Bonds.

[BlackRazor]

Delgado thinks he got jobbed. Do you think he should have won it?

I don't know who should have won, but I think that in addition to posting each players' offensive stats, you also should have noted that Rodriguez won the Gold Glove award at shortstop.

[mrbillxx]

Sorry. Pujols deserves it. His team wouldn't have even been close in September given the Cards pitching injuries. Pujols almost single handedly kept the Cards in the hunt in the last few months.

He was a legitimate shot for a Triple Crown (Bonds will never have the average) and has many claiming that he is one of the best all-around hitters they have ever seen.

He was much more valuable to his team than Bonds was to the Giants. But then again it's all about what sells. And Bonds sells, Pujols doesn't.

[discostu]

When you're getting close to the record (as he did a few times) just missing 10 or 15 games could make the difference. You're right though that we have to look at the bigger picture, batters don't bat in a vacuum and having a solid slugger behind him and guys on base in front of him makes him harder to walk.

There's a lot of stuff that goes into making these records: consistency, luck, "juiced balls", maybe some steroids.

[CommerceComet]

I've always wondered how far Mickey Mantle could have hit a baseball if he were on steriods. He hit them consistently further than anyone as it was. (Go to www.themick.com and click on the link to his longest homeruns. They have aerial photographs of the stadiums with the flight paths of his longest homeruns drawn in. Amazing.)

Barry Bonds is a fine player but he has never been the equal of his godfather, Willie Mays. I consider the modern homerun totals to be fraudulent: diluted pitching, small ballparks, small strike zones, rules against brushbacks, and performance-enhancing substances all make homeruns much cheaper than they were 40 years ago.

[BlackRazor]

He was a legitimate shot for a Triple Crown (Bonds will never have the average

Huh? Bonds hit .341 this year and .377 the previous year.

[xp38]

Maybe that is what tipped it for him. I didn't mean to slight fielding stats or all the others but I'd still be making up the post if I included everything.

[mrbillxx]

18 points behind Pujols and 17 behind Helton. Hardly a close race.

[Sabertooth]

Sorry. Pujols deserves it. His team wouldn't have even been close in September given the Cards pitching injuries. Pujols almost single handedly kept the Cards in the hunt in the last few months.

On their way to a 100-61 record this season, the Giants played .500 ball with Bonds out of the line-up. He also had four game-winning hits in two key series against the Braves and the D-Backs while coming off bereavement.

He [Pujols] was a legitimate shot for a Triple Crown (Bonds will never have the average) and has many claiming that he is one of the best all-around hitters they have ever seen.

Bonds hit .341 this year, and won the batting title with a .370 average last year. His biggest hurdle to winning a Triple Crown is the RBI title, given the walks and intentional walks he receives with men on base.

Pujols is a great talent, no question. Had the Cardinals won the NL Central title, the MVP would have certainly been closer, and he might have won it outright.

[CommerceComet]

Let me try to hot-link the Mantle website:
http://www.themick.com/

If you haven't seen this, it's worth a visit.

[BlackRazor]

18 points behind Pujols and 17 behind Helton. Hardly a close race.

But he's clearly demonstrated he can hit for a high enough average to compete for a batting title - .377 will win most years, and .341 will often put you in the hunt. Over the past three years his average is higher than Pujols'.

[Grando Calrissian]

Maybe, but hitting 49 home runs in 1987 is a lot different than hitting 49 in 1997, or even now. For a variety of reason power numbers went up in the 1990s. I'm not saying steroids had nothing to do with it, I'm only saying that there were other factors such as dillution of pitching, smaller stadiums, players actually training like athletes, maple wood bats, etc.

[PISANO]

Sorry discostu......it just doesn't wash with me. I will tell you why. When I was a YOUNGSTER watching Stan Musial play in the late 40's and all thru the 50's I came to realize that Stan Musial was NEVER considered a HR hitter. Long story short. Sportsmans Park had a 12 foot wall and a 40 ft SCREENED FENCE down the right field line. Today that DOUBLE that Musial hit would be a HOME RUN. He wound up having the NL record for doubles and I did some calculating he should have had at some 250-300 HR's MORE if that screen were NOT there.

That MY FRIEND is an "IF ONLY". As I grew older I realized that it just makes NO SENSE to wonder what could have happend BUT what did happen AND WHY??????

As the years pass I don't remember the stats but I think Stan Musial had 475 HRs and 725 doubles.

[mrbillxx]

He also had 200 less ABs and 133 hits. Not exactly impressive.

[BlackRazor]

18 points behind Pujols and 17 behind Helton. Hardly a close race.

Two corrections to make. I erroneously stated twice that Bonds hit .377 in 2002. He actually hit .370.

Bonds did win the batting title in 2002, though. Hopefully that demonstrates to you that he is capable of doing so.

[Alberta's Child]

Too bad Tony Gwynn retired a couple of years ago -- I wish he were in his prime today. If Bonds hit .370 in 2002, then Gwynn probably would have been looking at a .420 average for that season.

[Grando Calrissian]

I think Sabertooth in #59 explained Bonds' year best. All the stars alligned that year. Kind of like Roger Maris who never hit more than 39 HRs until 1961, and never came close afterwards.