Full containment of California wildfires near; two new deaths

Sac Bee ^ | 11/3/03 | Brian Skoloff - AP

[NormsRevenge]

BIG BEAR, Calif. (AP) - Firefighters doused hotspots and watched for new ones Monday as persistent damp weather brought Southern California's vast wildfires to near full containment.

The positive developments were tempered by a rise in the death toll to 22 as San Bernardino County authorities added two more suspected heart-attack fatalities, and thousands of people remained displaced by the fires that burned over more than 743,000 acres and destroyed some 3,570 homes.

[farmfriend]

Rights, farms, environment ping.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.
I don't get offended if you want to be removed.

For real time political chat - Radio Free Republic chat room

[NormsRevenge]

Schwarzenegger said the next step will be looking to learn from the fires.

"As governor, you cannot do anything to stop a fire from happening," he said. "What is important now is to find out if there's anything that could be done so there could be even a better response."

:-\

[farmfriend]

"As governor, you cannot do anything to stop a fire from happening," he said. "What is important now is to find out if there's anything that could be done so there could be even a better response."

Bull droppings!!!

[NormsRevenge]

.

[supercat]

BTW, what does it mean when a fire is "75% contained"? Does that mean that 75% of what is expected to be the ultimate perimeter of containment is fireproofed?

[TaMoDee]

And your solution to the problem is?

[farmfriend]

Natural Process

After some ten years of this process, we have almost achieved a degree of mitigation of the fire risk sufficient to begin undergrowth control by less aggressive means. Another way to say this is: Reduce the dominance of the pest, then let the trees, bushes, and groundcovers recover. Thin and prune the trees to the point that they can recover from blight diseases and survive a relatively cool fire, and then have one. The current plan is to conduct a partial factorial array of controlled burn experiments in conjunction with CDF. The purpose is to monitor the sprout rate of broom versus native bushes, and determine in places if this sort of program works to help germinate some natives without their being overwhelmed by sprouting broom. Hopefully, it works to reduce the broom seed bank.

[OldFriend]

Sylvia Sylvia Sylvia, it's your Sierra Club activism that brought you this disaster. WAKE UP!

[TaMoDee]

My eyes glazed over after half way through your reply.

I guess that your "Bull Skat" reply is meant to tell me that the FS, BLM, CDFG and others should get the hell out of the way of Mother Nature and forget the "Bull Skat" that they "the agencies" write.

I'm with you if that was your intent.

[farmfriend]

I think we need proper forest management under a free market system. Taking the power from the agencies and enviro goups and putting it in the hands of land owners.

[First_Salute]

Southern California Fires Live Thread -- 11/2/2003, Sunday

[TaMoDee]

With'ya!

[Carry_Okie]

I guess that your "Bull Skat" reply is meant to tell me that the FS, BLM, CDFG and others should get the hell out of the way of Mother Nature and forget the "Bull Skat" that they "the agencies" write.

LOL, Awl half yew no dat ah rote dat dare bowls cat!

Actually, I would offer that to leave these forests alone to burn is an absolute disaster. We would have virtually nothing but weed species within two to five years after such a fire, perhaps never to recover.

It's going to take hard work to fix this mess.

[John H K]

Actually, I would offer that to leave these forests alone to burn is an absolute disaster. We would have virtually nothing but weed species within two to five years after such a fire, perhaps never to recover.

Actually, much of what burned, especially that that burned densely populated areas, basically consists of giant, worthless, "weeds" NATURALLY, that are evolutionarily DESIGNED to burn.

[John H K]

I think we need proper forest management under a free market system. Taking the power from the agencies and enviro goups and putting it in the hands of land owners.

I haven't seen anyone with specific evidence that homeowners in the area of the fires were prevented from clearing brush or trees on their own property by any agencies or environmental groups.

One area that was less affected by the fires actually had stricter regulations on what they REQUIRED homeowners to do in terms of clearing brush and weeds.

[Carry_Okie]

My family settled in Southern California in the late 19th Century and has lived there ever since (in and around El Cajon). They were farmers. So, you don't need to tell me that California is a fire accommodated habitat. I am a published author on environmental topics in California, including fuel loads and fire. I have performed forest thinning for over thirteen years, including climbing, topping, weed removal, native plant revegetation, patch burning, and erosion control projects. So perhaps you should read who endorsed my understanding of forest management before you make such an ass of yourself.

Actually, much of what burned, especially that that burned densely populated areas, basically consists of giant, worthless, "weeds" NATURALLY, that are evolutionarily DESIGNED to burn.

No, those forests were not evolutionarily DESIGNED to burn. They were historically MANAGED by the local tribes who burned on a frequency to which the forest became habituated, typically every five to eight years. That is a process that has been interrupted by processes of fire suppression and exclusion subsequent to logging. The response of the system was to produce VASTLY more fuel than has been seen in that location for at least the last 20,000 years.

That does NOT mean that the way to restore a more usual fire regimen in those forests is to let them burn with the fuel load they still have (at least in a few places that the "let it burn" freaks haven't destroyed), particularly in the presence of so many aggressive exotic weeds, particularly starthistle. The spread of exotic infestations is usually vastly accelerated after a hot fire. They usually breed faster than natives and the seed is often airborne. Seed transport is unrestrained by vegetation and spreads on the equally unrestrained runoff. As they mature they suppress other plants and dry out the surface soil so that a forest may have a hard time taking hold again.

A hot fire consumes the roots that hold the soil, and bakes the ground into a clay that cracks. Water shoots down cracks that form rills very quickly. The topsol is stripped in chunks, and landslides result. Streams choke with silt. A cooler more frequent fire has few of those results.

Burning a forest after fifty years of fire suppression means that it will be very difficult to EVER replicate the conditions before the original clearcut.

[E.G.C.]

BTTT!!!!!

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Weatherbug says 20 degrees in Big Bear this morning!

[NormsRevenge]

Big Bear, huh? Sure ya don't mean Big BRRRRRrrrrrr!!!!

Heck, 20 degrees is tanktop weather for Minniesodians like me. :-)

Caught a clip of "BurnItAll" BoXer on KTVU 2 this morning.
Per her:

It's time to move on, and we mustn't play the blame game now, yaknow.

But she sure had lots of praise for her cohorts in crime and laid all the blame on Bush for not approving hers and others "plans" to clear out and thin all that pesky brush and timber that burns with a vengeance.

I'd vote for GodZilla before I'd vote for this b*tch. She must be kicked to the curb in the 2004 election.

Coincidentally (or not), Her face was 'ashen' as she spoke of putting this all behind us and taking care of those affected by the firestorms.