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Terri's Fight - (Daily Thread/Updates) November 3-4, 2003
Various | November 3, 2003 | sweetliberty

Posted on 11/02/2003 11:25:14 PM PST by sweetliberty

TERRI'S FIGHT
(Daily Thread 4 - November 3-4, 2003)
Link back to thread 3 - (Nov. 1-2)

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Contained in thread 3"

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More questionable connections between The Jerger Co., the new doctor and the mistress, update on the prayer vigil, connections between Judge Demers and the new Guardian ad litum, Jay Wolfson, link to information on Hospice of the Florida Suncoast, comparison to Indiana case involving starving Down's Syndrome infants, PC93 launches Terri's life ribbon campaign, more information on Hospice of the Florida Suncoast, connection between George Felos and Mary Labyak of Hospice of the Florida Suncoast, update from the vigil, link to legal summary of the case, information on Mary Labyak, contact information for Florida law enforcement and courts, story of John Douglas, link to doctor's exam and nursing notes, update on Terri and upcoming talk shows, information in the mistress, story of Margaret Logan and the story of the first time Terri's feeding tube was removed.

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Click on pic for Terri's website

This thread serves as a place for posting all new general information and references, along with links following Terri's case, plus information on cable news and talk radio shows dealing with the issue, court cases and press releases. This is also the place to post contact information, prayers and general discussion.

If you have something that qualifies as BREAKING NEWS or FRONT PAGE NEWS, please post it on a separate thread in that category in order to give it maximum exposure and then post a link to the article/thread here so that it will be included in the next update of links. Also, if you post links to articles from original sources and there is also a thread on FR, please link to the FR thread. Many original links become corrupt over time and we want to be able to access the information at will.

Thanks again to everyone for all your hard work.

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Latest Threads On Terri's Case

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Judge Makes USF Professor Schiavo's Guardian Ad Litem

Schiavo case deserves less-reckless handling

Fight over woman's feeding tube leaves husband's life in limbo (Terri Schiavo)

Schiavo lawyer: New Age mystic

Husband challenges law that keeps his wife alive


TOPICS: Activism/Chapters; Government; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: attorneyfromhell; daily; euthanasia; florida; forcesofevil; georgefelos; guardianfromhell; hino; merchantsofdeath; michaelschiavo; righttolife; schiavo; schindler; terri; terrischiavo
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To: Windshark; Canadian Outrage
Just had FReepmail from Lynn. She was looking for you.

Yes, I am worked up...to say the least. I am so sick of seeing our country run down by a bunch judicial tyrants serving a communist agenda who are mowing down everything we stand for....or at least used to.

101 posted on 11/03/2003 7:11:55 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: FR_addict
I don't think any of us know the exact date she was taken to California. I'm not even positive of the total amount of the award, or if there was more than one.

pc93 says the Larry King interview of the Schindlers is postponed till Friday. Would be great if he would ask them more on the subject of the fractures.

That Michael would have sued for fractures. Absolutely! But, if he allowed experimental treatment/surgery, he would have had to sign a release, a waiver, etc.

Among her injuries, didn't Terri suffer a fracture of one thigh? That would have required a cast. If she had such an injury(ies) upon admittance to Emergency, I can't understand why police didn't investigate further for abuse.

I believe she did have some therapy in the early 1990s. One report said she responded "a little better" in the late afternoon than in the morning - and another program was being prepared for her. To my knowledge, nothing more was done after that.

In the case of Nancy Cruzon(sp?), there was no response.

102 posted on 11/03/2003 7:21:46 PM PST by lakey
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To: EternalVigilance
Thanks for the heads up and the link!
103 posted on 11/03/2003 7:26:22 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: sweetliberty
Would you like a massage?

:-)

Hey.....do your anger thing, but don't let it get in the way sweets.

104 posted on 11/03/2003 7:26:44 PM PST by Windshark (.......... liberals are mostly..........completely dumb ........:-)
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To: sweetliberty
BTW....She found me.

Thanks.

105 posted on 11/03/2003 7:27:21 PM PST by Windshark (.......... liberals are mostly..........completely dumb ........:-)
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To: sweetliberty
that post didn't come out right....sorry.

Not trying to imply you're not right to be angry.

I've been working a bit too hard!

106 posted on 11/03/2003 7:28:40 PM PST by Windshark (.......... liberals are mostly..........completely dumb ........:-)
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To: FR_addict
Begging your pardon. # 49 explains. Sort of.
107 posted on 11/03/2003 7:35:19 PM PST by lakey
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To: supercat
Only insofar as he has a blind judge on his side who's willing to ignore reality when making findings of fact.

Still, having the original trial finding of fact for him has taken Schiavo all the way to being able to twice kill Terri. He is certain the third time will be the charm in the corrupt FL judiciary.
108 posted on 11/03/2003 7:37:48 PM PST by Theodore R.
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To: Windshark
Oh, I knew what you meant. I thnk there are just some people that need some sense KNOCKED into them. That is the only language some people can understand....or at least the only one that gets their attention. Too many people growing up with the liberal touchy, feely philosophy....they're all words, hot air and nonsense....lots of fluff, but no substance. I just fail to understand why they have to be taken seriously. That is how we got in this mess. Are the adults ever going to stop catering to their tantrums?

I can't remember the last time a politician got up and called a spade a spade. Yeah, Bush has done it with the terrorists, to an extent, but he doesn't seem to be so good on follow through, and as long as he's mollycoddling homegrown enemies, his stance only goes so far. Same with most of our representatives and senators...they're so busy pandering to the lowest common denominator, most of them wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them upside the head with a dead fish, and if they did recognize it they wouldn't tell it because they'd be too afraid of "offending" someone. Well, as far as I'm concerned, they've offended the decent, God-fearing and patriotic American people so much that nothing they say has any value, and until I see some fur flying where it counts, I am not likely to change my opinion.

109 posted on 11/03/2003 7:44:07 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
And it appears that quite a few of these tyrants wear the "Republican" label too!!!!
110 posted on 11/03/2003 7:54:30 PM PST by Theodore R.
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To: sweetliberty
Gnight sweets....fight on!

Off to bed.....btw...I give a great massage......

:-)

111 posted on 11/03/2003 7:54:40 PM PST by Windshark (.......... liberals are mostly..........completely dumb ........:-)
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To: sweetliberty
Only insofar as he has a blind judge on his side who's willing to ignore reality when making findings of fact.

Probably Jesse Helms in the 1980s
112 posted on 11/03/2003 7:55:21 PM PST by Theodore R.
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To: sweetliberty
Charles Evans Hughes, a former associate and later chief justice of the Supreme Court, said as much in about 1940: "The Constitution means what the judges say it means," he arrogantly stated. And, yes, he was also the Republican defeated by Woodrow Wilson in 1916.
113 posted on 11/03/2003 7:58:00 PM PST by Theodore R.
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To: supercat
"I'm sure being nominated for the Nobel Prize probably feels pretty good, but the term "nominee" might better be described as "applicant". "

The point is the doctor didn't lie, Felos and his friends were lying.

Bill Clinton was nominated, George Bush has been nominated. We hear about their nominations. I don't see any problem with the doctor bragging about his nomination.
114 posted on 11/03/2003 8:06:16 PM PST by FR_addict
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To: FR_addict
"I'm sure being nominated for the Nobel Prize probably feels pretty good, but the term "nominee" might better be described as "applicant". "

The point is the doctor didn't lie, Felos and his friends were lying.

Bill Clinton was nominated, George Bush has been nominated. We hear about their nominations. I don't see any problem with the doctor bragging about his nomination.

I don't know what specifically Felos et al. said to know whether they were lying, but when former King George of Illinois gets nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize for his blanket commutation of death sentences, I don't consider nomination to be exactly praiseworthy. Of course, given that Arafat has won the prize, I'm not sure winning it is much better.

115 posted on 11/03/2003 8:08:52 PM PST by supercat (Why is it that the more "gun safety" laws are passed, the less safe my guns seem?)
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To: Theodore R.
At least the Republicans were the majority who passed Terri's law.

We had to push them, but at least they did what was morally right in this case.
116 posted on 11/03/2003 8:13:38 PM PST by FR_addict
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To: Windshark
"I give a great massage......"

Well, thanks. I appreciate the thought, sharky. Better not let LL catch you making those kinds of offers, though.

117 posted on 11/03/2003 8:13:42 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Theodore R.
Thanks for the new info re: Larry King Live. LKL lives in LA now instead of on the east coast. That was news to me.
118 posted on 11/03/2003 8:16:58 PM PST by floriduh voter (Breaking at baynews9.com...conservative-spirit.org FR Site)
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To: MeeknMing
Sorry, Larry King Live moved to Fri. 9:00 est. Last minute change in LKL show.
119 posted on 11/03/2003 8:18:09 PM PST by floriduh voter (Breaking at baynews9.com...conservative-spirit.org FR Site)
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To: sweetliberty; pc93; GWB and GOP Man; cyn; PrepareToLeave; TaxRelief; GoreNoMore; Don Joe; ...
#84 is the sickest move yet... They want to shut down the Schindler Support Network who are TELLING THE TRUTH ABOUT TERRI, they want to probably take away the family's visitation rights, shut down all the friend of the court filings, continue to treat Jeb Bush like a bump on a log, and ultimately, while the Schindlers are appealing being "cut out", they'll try to carry out those wishes (but probably by other means.

The question remains: WHY DO ALL THE JUDGES, ATTORNEY, ACLU AND HUBBY WANT THIS ONE INNOCENT WOMAN MURDERED? What kind of conspiracy is going on in the State of Florida? FLORIDIANS ARE NOT BLIND, BUT JUDGE GREER FOR ONE IS.

120 posted on 11/03/2003 8:26:59 PM PST by floriduh voter (Breaking at baynews9.com...conservative-spirit.org FR Site)
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To: floriduh voter
FV, I am so upset tonight I can't see straight. Everything is wrong with this case. EVERYTHING! Only God knows the answers. Wish He'd give us a clue, or at least something to go on.
121 posted on 11/03/2003 8:34:31 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: mickie
I just figured out what Michael's problem is and Felos ran with it and it turned into the nightmare we have today. MICHAEL SCHIAVO IS PHOBIC ABOUT FEEDING TUBES IMO. That's why he starved his mom and dad and wants to starve Terri. Attorney Mind Control has the perfect subject, I mean client, in Michael Schiavo.
122 posted on 11/03/2003 8:35:33 PM PST by floriduh voter (Breaking at baynews9.com...conservative-spirit.org FR Site)
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To: EternalVigilance
Awesome!
123 posted on 11/03/2003 8:39:58 PM PST by sisterjforteri
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To: sweetliberty
Even though we are frustrated by legal motions that keep getting more heinous and completely out of bounds for the United States of America, we must remember that the whole world is watching, please read between the lines and feel better.
124 posted on 11/03/2003 8:41:16 PM PST by floriduh voter (Breaking at baynews9.com...conservative-spirit.org FR Site)
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To: floriduh voter
Ohmmmmmm. Felos is just BRILLIANT and I used to be a butterfly two existences ago until my antenae picked up the vibes from the snowball someone threw at the tree. :)
125 posted on 11/03/2003 8:54:38 PM PST by windchime
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To: sweetliberty
Amen sweetliberty.
126 posted on 11/03/2003 9:01:42 PM PST by DreamWeaver
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To: floriduh voter
When I got to the end of the thread I noticed I needed to explain that my comment was in regard to the portion of Felos' book you posted.
127 posted on 11/03/2003 9:17:28 PM PST by windchime
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To: Coral Snake
Oops....not sure how I missed posting this thread here....talk about troll bait!

Professor Appointed to Probe Schiavo Case

128 posted on 11/03/2003 9:42:14 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: mickie
"How long did she live after disagreeing with the HINO?"

ROTFL!

129 posted on 11/03/2003 9:48:14 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
Yeah, and the trolling is getting a little more sophisticated. It's disheartening to see anyone be taken in by it. I just keep reading the daily thread and hoping it doesn't get invaded. This daily thread's not only the place to be for keeping in touch about what we, as little cogs, can do to help, it's also been a bit of a refuge from the constant "Kill her!" trash.
130 posted on 11/03/2003 10:00:09 PM PST by lonevoice (Legal disclaimer: The above is MY OPINION)
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To: lonevoice
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

You know, I honestly don't see what is so difficult about this case. To me, and I would think to anyone of conscience, it's a no brainer. The only thing that upsets me worse than the commie liberals and what they've done and continue to do to this country, are those people under the banner of conservatism who are helping them.

131 posted on 11/03/2003 10:07:19 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: windchime
You just forgot your sarcasm tag. The thought of him taking a shower and thinking about what to do to his clients is pretty untoward. lol
132 posted on 11/03/2003 10:10:56 PM PST by floriduh voter (Breaking at baynews9.com...conservative-spirit.org FR Site)
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To: floriduh voter
"Terri has higher name recognition than dem presidential candidates"

And doubtless more brain activity.

133 posted on 11/03/2003 10:13:26 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Theodore R.
"Notice that Schiavo got his award the same month that the American voters elected Bill Clinton to the White House"

Well, that's one merciful part of this whole mess I suppose....Terri didn't have to deal with 8 years of Bill Clinton. Just think, life without ever knowing who Bill Clinton was!

134 posted on 11/03/2003 10:37:10 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
A song for Terri -- CLICK.
135 posted on 11/03/2003 10:39:38 PM PST by doug from upland (Why aren't the Clintons living out their remaining years on Alcatraz?)
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To: Budge; Pegita; cyn; Ladysmith; Calpernia; Babalu; floriduh voter; dandelion; PleaseNoMore; ...
DFU SONG: Candle in the Wind (for Terri)

Y'all be sure to see DFU's song for Terri.

Thank you Doug! It is just lovely.

136 posted on 11/03/2003 10:48:20 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: supercat
" Of course, given that Arafat has won the prize, I'm not sure winning it is much better."

You echo my thoughts on that.....and Jimmy Carter. Not so sure that is company I'd like to be counted among.

137 posted on 11/03/2003 10:57:01 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
I'm starting to feel the ANGER to. If you noticed one of my posts on another thread I appropriated your red censored emoticon to use against the trolls on it.
138 posted on 11/03/2003 11:50:40 PM PST by Coral Snake (deathculture(HospiceOf TheFlorida$uncoast == Andersonville + Aushwitz)
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To: sweetliberty; MarMema; HiTech RedNeck; pollywog
Personally I think the "vegitables" in this case are the ones ON THE OTHER SIDE. (Judge Greer, George Felos, Michael Schiavo, Jody the slut etc.) I don't think I have EVER seen such a collection of spiritually dead people in a single legal case!!!
139 posted on 11/03/2003 11:58:45 PM PST by Coral Snake (deathculture(HospiceOf TheFlorida$uncoast == Andersonville + Aushwitz)
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To: Coral Snake
"I appropriated your red censored emoticon"

Be my guest. It has become about my only insurance right now of not getting my posts pulled for profanity! I don't know when I've been so angry, and there are a handful of people trolling these threads that I'd really like to give a piece of my mind, but I refuse to argue with people who do not have enough conscience to recognize the difference between artificially prolonging life and and actively destroying it, particularly when there are so many OBVIOUS doubts and conflicting opinions, both professional and personal, not to mention moral (remember when that mattered?).

140 posted on 11/03/2003 11:59:41 PM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: Coral Snake
"I don't think I have EVER seen such a collection of spiritually dead people in a single legal case!!!"

That's a real good way to put it. I've been saying all along that this is like a horror movie....yeah, The Night Case of the Living Dead.....and it isn't Terri whose dead.

141 posted on 11/04/2003 12:06:29 AM PST by sweetliberty ("Having the right to do a thing is not at all the same thing as being right in doing it.")
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To: sweetliberty
"I don't know when I've been so angry, and there are a handful of people trolling these threads that I'd really like to give a piece of my mind, but I refuse to argue with people who do not have enough conscience to recognize the difference between artificially prolonging life and and actively destroying it"

What gets me so angry at them is that it's so obvious that they're willfully ignoring the difference.

142 posted on 11/04/2003 12:11:52 AM PST by Wampus SC ((Fly the Gadsen Flag))
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To: floriduh voter
I been wondering this for a long time, why Thresea ?
I closed my eyes, and pray, then fell asleep and saw
the Holy Mother image in Clearwater...I know, I know
it's a dream/vison?, but then I realize..OMG, so I begin
looking up the story of the Holy Mother image in Clearwater
, and when I saw the image(Photo) it was the same image in
my dream. "WoW" ..Now what?...Then I realize, it's a test
from God...Do we still care....The image became clear around
Dec 3rd, 1996...Thresea birthday is Dec 3rd...
We are fighting a battle with the forces of evil,lies, and deceptions(atty's,judges,ACLU, Warlocks, Witches,evil) and
they know, that Thresea Maria is a saint, and they want her
killed and destroyed, but the angels of God protects her, and we(who sees the truth) are few...., during this test the Sun will go crazy, this is a sign, but many won't understand it, or see it.....and if we lose ?...I see hell
and fire happening in the United States...You see what they
did with the Ten Commandments.....

This is what I think....and feel...in Jesus name.
143 posted on 11/04/2003 12:30:17 AM PST by Orlando (Is Micheal paying child support ? What is MS past criminal records ?)
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To: EternalVigilance
What do you hear from the frontlines and how Terri's physical condition is since the tube was reinserted?
144 posted on 11/04/2003 12:45:05 AM PST by JustPiper (18 out of 19 HiJacker's had State issued Driver's License's !!!)
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To: EternalVigilance
What do you hear from the frontlines and how Terri's physical condition is since the tube was reinserted?
145 posted on 11/04/2003 12:47:41 AM PST by JustPiper (18 out of 19 HiJacker's had State issued Driver's License's !!!)
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To: sweetliberty
The trolls aren't doing it under the banner of conservatism. They are doing it under the banner of Ayn Rand's atheistic Objectivisim which believes that "the right to die", drugs, pornography, prostitution and illegal immigeration should be legalized. Personally I'm comming ever closer to the belief that the Ayn Rand fans at FR should be ZOTed along with the DUmmies, Marxies, Liberals and all true enemies of the traditional moral conservative America that try to post here. Because except in THREE areas (gun rights, property rights and honest debt free money) Randian "libertarians" are just as much the enemy as those others.
146 posted on 11/04/2003 12:50:23 AM PST by Coral Snake (deathculture(HospiceOf TheFlorida$uncoast == Andersonville + Aushwitz)
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To: sweetliberty; floriduh voter; dandelion; EternalVigilance; FL_engineer; supercat; All
sweetliberty, would you ping more people to this transcript? I didn't see anyone mention this on the thread anywhere, Dan Abrams did a commentary/editorial at the end of his MSNBC show Monday evening about Terri's case. Presumably he may read viewer e- mails Tuesday night, the address is below the transcript if anyone cares to respond.

The problem with transcription is you lose SO much that's conveyed by the speaker's tone of voice--I'll just say my impression was that Abrams was just barely up to speed on the case--kept pronouncing Schiavo "skee-AH-voh"--but at least he was acknowledging that there were two sides to this. He seemed mostly worried about the "constitutional" aspects of the case, which I took to mean the FL legislature's actions and not Terri's rights. However, he did not seem to be overly hostile or dismissive towards the Schindlers, so that was good--my impression is he just hasn't paid much attention to it. (I admittedly could be way off here, since I seldom see his show.)

Remember to keep any e-mails succinct, they just put a few sentences on the screen when they read them--they're looking for punchy soundbites, essentially. IMHO, this is a good opportunity to get the word out a bit more. Here's the transcript, it's as accurate as I could make it at 4am:


Monday, November 3, 2003
MSNBC
The Abrams Report
"Closing Argument" Segment
Dan Abrams

"My closing argument: Why the Schiavo right-to-die case sometimes feels more like a family feud, laced with mutual distrust, than it does a broader disagreement about these constitutional and moral questions. Sure, the case has brought a number of important issues to the forefront, but when you look at the facts and the family history, it seems this dispute exploded when the families started quarreling about other issues.

"The question is whether she can be taken off of life support. Her husband and the courts have said "yes." That Terri is in a persistent vegetative state, and that she had expressed a desire not to live like this. While Terri's parents say she does recognize faces, and now the Florida legislature has stepped in to try to ensure the feeding tube stays in.

"But the real fights began almost three years after Terri collapsed, in 1993, when the Schiavos received a million-dollar judgment from her doctors for failing to diagnose her health problems. The parents saying the dispute was over the type of treatment Schiavo should pursue with the money, Schiavo saying the parents wanted a cut of it. The family now says they believe Terri and Michael had a violent argument the night she went unconscious, and they say nursing home aides heard him expressing hope that she would die.

"The courts have not found that testimony credible, good reason for him to distrust his in-laws. But they have a reason to distrust him as well. Schiavo did not tell them of Terri's wish to not be kept alive artificially until 1997 -- after he had a new girlfriend. So when Schiavo went to court in 1998 to remove the feeding tube, it's not that surprising that the family challenged him.

"But you have to wonder, are her parents fighting so hard because they believe that she can recognize faces, etcetera, that she actually does understand, or is it that they just don't believe Schiavo about what Terri said? Could a novel legal and constitutional fight have been precipitated by an old-fashioned feud between parents and a husband? Less about the sort of moral questions that have divided the country and more about simple mistrust? If true, what a shame that would be for everyone involved.

"All right, I've had my say, now it is time for Your Rebuttal...."

[He then reads viewer's letters responding to subjects from the previous show. Presumably they will read e-mails regarding the above editorial on Tuesday night's show, 11-4-03. Here's the address:]
abramsreport@msnbc.com



147 posted on 11/04/2003 3:56:51 AM PST by TheSarce
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To: All
From February 2000 - Judge rejects intervention of group in Schiavo case

[SOUTH PINELLAS Edition]
St. Petersburg Times.
St. Petersburg: Feb 11, 2000. pg. 10.B
Copyright Times Publishing Co. Feb 11, 2000


(excerpt)
Pinellas Circuit Judge George Greer will not allow a group of doctors, lawyers and other professionals to intervene in the case of a St. Petersburg woman with brain damage whose family is divided on whether to remove her feeding tube. Professionals for Excellence in Health Care wanted the judge to allow them to argue that Terri Schiavo, 36, should be kept alive despite her husband's request to let her die.

In his order denying the motion, Greer writes that the group's arguments are philosophical and perhaps should be directed to state lawmakers.


Hmmmmmmm, isn't that Terri's Law in 2003?
148 posted on 11/04/2003 4:45:40 AM PST by mommy23
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To: TheSarce
a family feud

To me, Terri's fight is about good and evil. It is not in any way a "family feud." Schiavo was never a part of the Schindler family except through marriage, and he set aside that "marriage" long ago. No, the Schindlers and Schiavo are not really related in any true meaning of that word. Only liberal media would purport this tragedy as a "family feud." To say, it is a "family feud" is to belittle its significance.
149 posted on 11/04/2003 5:39:32 AM PST by Theodore R.
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To: Theodore R.
My thoughts too. He calls the fight to save Terri's life, a family feud.

He obviously doesn't get it.
150 posted on 11/04/2003 6:23:57 AM PST by FR_addict
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