SBC quietly spins off jobs to India

ping

Between the jobs 'that no one else will take' by the illegals and the upper end jobs being outsourced.. how do they expect the jobless rate to change? I know it's been reported that the economy is on the upswing.. but with American money being sent to Mexio.. I don't see how the unemployment rate will change.

I don't see how the unemployment rate will change.

It won't but you'll be called an ungrateful commie for pointing it out.

We recently purchased a Motorola cordless phone, which we wanted to mount on the wall. It is wall-mountable, but for some reasson, it doesn't come that way, you have to call them and request it. Three times my husband has called Motorola and gotten guys named "Richard" and "Jonathan" and "Michael" who spoke terrible english, couldn't understand a word he was saying and sounded like Apu from the Simpson's. Where do you suppose those fellas were?

Between the jobs 'that no one else will take' by the illegals and the upper end jobs being outsourced.. how do they expect the jobless rate to change?

I'm considering going into armed robbery. Priority number 1 will be locating people who have money.

Obligatory Disclaimer: The above was a joke.

In a roundabout way, the company I work for does business with SBC, particularly their IT and Network groups. This could have a direct effect on my job personally

Thanks SBC!! < /sarcasm>

$18/hour is pretty good pay for these parts. SBC doesn't need to go to India when there are folks looking for work in Missouri.

I made a call the other day on my Toshiba laptop...I first got poor-english speaking oriental in New Jersey, then my call got escalated to a perfect-english speaking fellow in Yugoslovia (educated in the U.K, and in the U.S.).

My problem was solved.

Transcript from CNN Lou Dobbs "Exporting America"

DOBBS: "Exporting America" -- tonight, we focus on an alarming new study on what the United States economy stands to lose from the so-called outsourcing of white-collar and service jobs. The University of California, Berkeley study warns, as many as 14 million American jobs are at risk of being shipped overseas. Peter Viles is here tonight with some of the findings -- Pete.

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, this report lays out the kinds of jobs that are at risk. And it really is sobering. If your job involves mainly sitting at a desk, mainly talking on the phone or working on a computer, your job could be outsourced.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VILES (voice-over): They call it the new wave in the outsourcing revolution, high-paying white-collar jobs that can be moved overseas easier and faster than factory jobs were, jobs in insurance, legal research, data analysis, call centers, payroll and other back-office activities.

ASHOK DEO BARDHAN, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY: I think we are right in the beginning. This trend has just started.

VILES: That from the co-author of a new University of California study that says as many as 14 million jobs are at risk. That's 11 percent of the U.S. work force. Average annual salary in those jobs, a shade under $40,000. The biggest group at risk, 8.6 million in office support.

The threat is strongest in cities built on high-paying service jobs, cities like Boston, New York, San Francisco and San Jose. And where are the jobs going? India, which will have 17 million workers available in information technology by 2008 and is already becoming America's tech support office.

REP. BRAD SHERMAN (D), CALIFORNIA: Let's say you call an 800 number to get information about your computer. You're calling Bombay. As a matter of fact, they train people there to say that you've reached Houston, Texas. But they're in Bombay.

VILES: It really doesn't matter how hard Americans work or how productive they become. These are the average salaries for programmers, $60,000 to $80,000 in the U.S., $23,000 to $34,000 in Ireland, just under $9,000 in China, even cheaper in India. And watch out, India, cheaper yet in Poland and Hungary.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: Now, whether these jobs at risk are actually sent overseas or not, the very threat of outsourcing can have negative consequences. Chief among them, it does tend to drive down wages in those jobs, Lou, here in the United States.

DOBBS: And what is remarkable about that is that much of the clever strategy around global competitiveness on the part of too many companies appears to be, cut the prices of the workers.

VILES: Sure, cut your costs, which is the price of the workers, send the work somewhere else, and hope that, when the products come back, there's somebody here in the country who has the money to buy them.

DOBBS: Very complex, sophisticated business thinking.

All right, Pete, thank you very much -- Peter Viles.

I'm joined now by one of the authors of the Cal, Berkeley study. Cynthia Kroll is a researcher at the University of California, Berkeley's Haas School of Business. And she joins us tonight from San Francisco.

Good to have you with us.

CYNTHIA KROLL, UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY: Thank you.

DOBBS: As you have determined, this -- the idea that 14 million jobs are at risk will set off significant reverberations around the country. Is there any way in which, if I may put it this way, that you see to staunch this outflow of jobs from this country around the world?

KROLL: Well, let me start with saying that the 14 million is just that, jobs that have the potential for outsourcing. We don't necessarily expect nearly that number to be outsourced, because there are certainly reasons that some of them would stay here.

DOBBS: Well, let me -- the fact is that, two years ago, nearly everyone analyzing this was saying that this is fine for us to watch American manufacturing jobs, more than three million of them now, go across the waters, because we'll maintain the high-value jobs. What we are seeing now, Cynthia, is the exportation of high-value jobs, by any definition. Do you see any way in which to reverse that trend?

KROLL: Well, it's really problematic, because, as you say, when the manufacturing jobs went, they -- that allowed a lot of investment in other types of new industries and particularly in the services jobs. Now, many of the jobs that have gone so far in services are not the high-paying ones yet. They're more of the call-center, back- office, payroll jobs. But they are close on middle-income jobs there.

What's at risk still are things like programming jobs, higher wage computer design jobs. There's certainly talk about government levels, about passing laws to try and restrict where that can happen, where governments, for example, can buy their services from.

But that's not necessarily the answer either. Probably the best result would be if, indeed, some of that savings went into the development of new industries in the U.S.

DOBBS: I'll put you on the spot, Cynthia, and ask you to give us a suggestion of an industry where people can be retrained.

We hear on this broadcast from hundreds of engineers who can't find work in this country -- highly trained -- I'm talking about civil engineers, mechanical engineers, electrical engineers. Got any ideas for them? KROLL: I think it'll take time. This is a really bad time to find a job in any industry of that type. I think when the economy begins to grow again, they will have more choices.

At the same time, they're probably going to be facing lower wages than they did in 1999 and 2000.

DOBBS: You're at the Haas School of Business. The idea of exporting global competitiveness and for CEOs and organizations, companies, to export these jobs to simply the lowest labor cost market around the world -- that doesn't seem to me to be a solution worthy of a business school degree. Does it you?

KROLL: Well, and that often is not what these businesses are doing. To some extent, some of it is. The call centers, that's exactly what's happening.

But another thing that we're observing is that high-skilled jobs are going as well. And they're not only going, they're going to places like Russia, to Israel. They're not only going because of cost savings but in some cases they're going even more because of the technical advantages that they get in those markets.

So another area to focus on if we want to maintain our competitive edge is education.

DOBBS: Absolutely. And education, as we've reported on this broadcast -- education in this country, in point of fact, our science and mathematical degrees are going just about 40 to 50 percent, depending on the degree, advanced degrees, to foreign students. We're watching also the exportation of a significant intellectual capital, aren't we?

KROLL: Yes, although at the same time, we're importing intellectual capital as well. A significant share of those students that come here to study in the U.S. stay in the U.S. And indeed, many of them are people who have started the new businesses that have grown here.

DOBBS: OK. Well, we appreciate you being here to talk about your study. Fourteen million American jobs at risk, vulnerable, to outsourcing. A remarkable conclusion.

We thank you very much for being with us. Cynthia Kroll, thank you.

KROLL: You're welcome.

DOBBS: The exporting America tonight is contributing to the projected $130 billion trade deficit with China this year. Commerce Secretary Don Evans is returning from China, where he was ostensibly meeting with Chinese officials to discuss shrinking deficit. However, the commerce secretary today told CNN's Rebecca MacKinnon he didn't specifically talk with the Chinese officials about doing anything about that deficit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DON EVANS, COMMERCE SECRETARY: I didn't press China to reduce the trade deficit. What I pressed China to do was provide a level playing field for American workers and American businesses, because we can compete as long as the playing field is level.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: The commerce secretary did talk with Chinese officials about protecting intellectual property rights and making it easier for U.S. companies to sell their products in China.

The economy grew at a rate of 7 percent in the third quarter -- 7.2 percent. The best performance for the economy in any quarter in 19 years.

Tonight's quote from a Congresswoman, however, who was less than pleased by that report. We quote -- "I say to the president, 'Mr. President, on your watch, we've lost more than 3.2 million private sector jobs. You have the worst record of job performance since Herbert Hoover. Mr. President, where are the jobs? The American will not settle, nor should the Republicans celebrate a jobless recovery." That, House minority leader, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi.

Coming up next, "The Great American Giveaway." Tonight, Americans sound off before Congress on the damaging impact of illegal aliens in this country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRY ANDERSON, RADIO HOST: Illegal immigration is killing the workforce. Legal immigration is killing the workforce. And the American worker's the guy that's coming up short.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Lisa Sylvester will have the report from Washington. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: On Capitol Hill today, Congress heard moving testimony on the impact of illegal aliens on American citizens.

Immigration is on the rise, without question, while the average wage for American workers is falling at a dramatic rate. Today members of Congress heard some startling examples of how the American worker is being squeezed.

Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNNfn CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Los Angeles radio host Terry Anderson likes to say he's the voice of popular rage. He told Congressional lawmakers, It's frustrating when people can't find work, even at a fast-food restaurant.

ANDERSON: And they're going -- to get these jobs, you know what they're told? We can't hire you because our entire kitchen is Spanish-speaking. Now, is that fair for a kid who's been in this country his whole life that he cannot get a job flipping a hamburger because he can't speak a foreign language? That is not fair.

SYLVESTER: For those who are able to find a job, they're being offered lessened wages. A study in the quarterly Journal of Economics found immigration in the last two decades pushed down wages for the average American worker by 3 percent. For high school dropouts, wages fell by nearly 9 percent.

STEVEN CAMAROTA, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: Those who support the current high level of unskilled immigration should at least do so with an understanding that those Americans harmed by the policy that they favor, already the poorest and most vulnerable.

SYLVESTER: But those who support a liberal immigration policy say the newcomers pay taxes, help keep the prices of goods and services down and in a roundabout way promote education.

DAN GRISWOLD, CATO INSTITUTE: Competition from immigrants actually gives native-born workers an even greater incentive to stay in school and enhance their skills.

SYLVESTER: But researchers at the National Academy of Science concluded that while the gains to the U.S. economy due to immigration could be as high as $10 billion, the cost is higher -- as much as $20 billion.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: According to the National Academy of Sciences, U.S. citizens in California pay $1,200 a year because of immigration. This is on top of the state, local and federal taxes residents are already paying -- Lou.

DOBBS: The economics are beginning to look somewhat convincing, don't you think?

SYLVESTER: It certainly -- if you take a look at the raw numbers, you know, you can take a look at it from the cost versus the benefits. Clearly, the costs seem to be outweighing benefits in this case. And when you take a look at the numbers of the actual impact that immigration is having on wages, it's an interesting study to look at -- Lou.

DOBBS: Lisa Sylvester, an interesting report, and we thank you for it. Lisa Sylvester reporting from Washington.

SBC spokesman Marc Bien said only that the work going to India involves "software testing, software code maintenance and system upkeep."

That's a brillant idea! Offshore the stuff you don't know how to do like test your software to make sure it works. Why, you'll get ten times better software when you explain to someone 8k miles away "uh, I think its supposed to work like this" and them saying to one another "they said A. Don't think about B" to their code monkeys, and then it comes back 3 months late and not working.

In any case, confidentiality agreements and the SBC Code of Business Conduct are seen as sufficient safeguards for providing overseas workers with access to SBC's domestic computer network.

SBC already outsources its system security to a Massachusetts company called RSA, which provides "SecurID" cards to employees. The cards must be used in conjunction with a password or PIN.

While SecurID cards are a good idea, what SBC is seeking is a technical solution to a non-technical problem. Pay your employees well and they won't typically steal. If you're paying them $5/hr (which is a gold mine in India) then someone offering them $30k (3 years salary) can get them to do anything they want.

They also mention a "reverse knowledge transfer phase" in which SBC workers are briefed on what the Indian contractors learned from handling the U. S. company's business.

And that is so easily implemented over here in the US when you have workers and developers sitting side by side (/sarcasm) that it'll be a piece of cake when you're seperated by 9 time zones.

My son was a programmer and did coding.. well the important word there is ...was.. of course, outsourcing has made it impossible for him to find a job in IT. He's trying to change directions maybe he should try landscaping.. Oh oops, nevermind.. the illegals are taking those jobs....

When SBC and Oracle and Bank of America send 3000 jobs offshore, and Walmart hires 4000, the unemployment rate goes down. Now we all now the net effect on the real economy.

The statistic to look at (if they publish it) would be private sector wage growth excluding those who earn over $200K per year. I guarantee you that number would be negative every month.

the telcos are making a big move in this area. within 10 years, we will all be paying monthly phone bills that go to employ workers offshore, and top executives in the US.

I live in 'middle America' and I would wager 99% of the Mexicans here are illegals. Just yesterday I was passing the local hospital and they have a company doing their landscaping.. ALL of the workers were Mexicans. No doubt all were illegals.

Layoffs here in the USA, hiring in India. The free traders smile.

Layoffs here in the USA, hiring in India. The free traders smile.

Smile heck they are giddy as school girls.