Rod Dreher: This Islamic group tends to extremes

Dallas Morning News ^ | 10/23/2003 | Rod Dreher

[nuconvert]

"Luckily for us, however, not every Muslim follows every jot and tittle of their murderous and psychotic doctrine. Those "lapsed" Muslims can and are helping us, all over the world. And we absolutely, positively need their help to win."

If you can't understand what I've been trying to say, don't you understand this? It doesn't get any simpler.
Don't condemn them all. We need their help. In fact, if you read the articles posted on FR and the newspapers, you'd realize that Muslims are already denouncing the islamofacist/terrorists, because they are the ones who are "blackening" their religion. They want to get rid of them, too.

[nuconvert]

I'm sorry to inform you, that people who call themselves Christians commit atrocities every day.

"Why don't the "good" Muslims give them up?"
What makes you think they haven't given some up already?

Interesting that you assume I'm Muslim.

"When a lady cab driver..." So, your generalization about women cab drivers, is what?

"and leave the country"....my ancestors have been here since the 1600's. Have long have your's been here?

I understand you, KB.

[nuconvert]

"Acting alone or in smaller groups hardly qualifies as sponsorship by the religion"

Correct.

"...kill the infidels"? For Islam, this is standard boilerplate"

You're overstating, now. Let's remember, it's a small percentage who are "bad".

[Kenny Bunk]

my ancestors have been here since the 1600's. Have long have your's been here

Marvelous. The families of very few Muslims have been here that long. I did assume you to be a Muslim. And if nuconvert means that you have just really converted to Islam from the religion of your ancestors, whoseoever they might be, remember, one of our American freedoms is the freedom to leave.

Of course Christians commit atrocities everyday. It's just that darned few of them are church-sanctioned. When there is a lady cab driver in Riyadh, take up this discussion with her.

Nice job on the freeper handle, though, and see you at the next DAR meeting.

[nuconvert]

The families of very few Muslims have been here that long. I did assume you to be a Muslim. And if nuconvert means that you have just really converted to Islam from the religion of your ancestors, whoseoever they might be, remember, one of our American freedoms is the freedom to leave.

"nuconvert" LOL!!!! Those who know will LOL also.
Do us a favor, take your own advice.

[nightdriver]

"Muslims are already denouncing the islamofacist/terrorists, because they are the ones who are "blackening" their religion. They want to get rid of them, too."

I'll have to take your word for that because I haven't seen any evidence of it.

None of the several moslems that I know or know of have said word one in denouncing their terrorist fundamentalist brothers. We do, however, hear about moslem FBI agents who are loyal to their moslem brothers first and the security of the U.S. second or less.

If there are ANY moslems denouncing islamo-terrorists, they sure are quiet about it.

[nuconvert]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/970362/posts?page=1#1

Here's one interesting article I've saved myself.

[tubavil]

Small percentage?, bad - in quotes?

Here are my questions again, the ones you ignored.

What US based muslim groups fight muslim terror? What have they done? What division of islam do they follow? Who are their religious leaders? How many muslims do they speak for?

There are six million muslims in the US. List SIX (one-millionith) that lead the charge against muslim terror.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

[TrebleRebel]

With all due respect, I read that article, and all it says in summary, is they want to kill peope for wanting to kill them. Again, let me ask....where are the denouncements? Where is a Muslim leader yelling for all the freaking savagery to stop?

[nuconvert]

I don't know "What US based muslim groups fight muslim terror"
Perhaps you could look it up.
I'll ask around.


6 million....I didn't know that. Well, I'd like to believe they were all "lead(ing) the charge against muslim terror."
But I know there are a few bad apples in the barrel.

[btw - Did you ping seamole? I hope he shows up. He might know the answer to your question]

[mil-vet]

Rhetorically but seriously, I ask you if all islamists are not terrorists, where is the outcry of the supposedly non-terroristic muslims against terrorism? If you're not against it, you're FOR it!

Put it in different words; it still means the same thing: Silence is acquiescence, acquiescence is de facto support, and support means you're FOR it! There simply are NO islamic groups anywhere in the world who are speaking out against terrorism. Therefore......DUH!

Having said this, I know a lot of Turkish muslims with whom I would trust my life. Conversely, I do NOT know any pakistanis, or any wahabbi-sect muslim, or any muslim from any other country (including the USA), for that matter, who I would trust to Pee properly!

I hope it's NOT merely a matter of time before they start their stupid muslim death tricks in North America (9/11 notwithstanding) - one schoolbus bombing here in the states and we're gonna start playing (sincerest apologies to the American Indian on this one) cowboys and muslims, and it'll be over very quickly - hope I'm wrong, but I have yet to hear a realistic alternative (hollywierd stupidity WILL NOT WORK - hope they don't get killed when they go over there; on the other hand, what would be the downside....?).

As long as there is a muslim out there who believes the koran, which is very specific on how to deal with infidels, how can there be peace? Koran-believing muslims do NOT want peace, they want to kill infidels (including liberals). Can ANYONE point to ANY muslim group who is saying, specifically, this is not true?

Islam is at war with all that is not islamic, and that includes me! Given the chance, I'll be shooting first!!

[nuconvert]

Mil-vet:
This is another media related problem. They don't report what's going on around the world, so no one knows. Hopefully, the quotes below will shed some light. There are several other articles that have been posted here on FR on this very subject. Muslims ARE denouncing terrorists.
Changes ARE ocurring within the religion, but they take time. We need the moderate Muslims to make these changes within their religion. We should support them, not condemn them. With 1.2 billion worldwide, we need their help.

"where is the outcry of the supposedly non-terroristic muslims against terrorism?"
(Please see link in #47.)

"There simply are NO islamic groups anywhere in the world who are speaking out against terrorism."
(Please see quote below.)
"Egypt - where the Jihadist movement appears to have suffered its first major political defeat, followed by mass defections. Virtually the whole of the Gamaa-Islamiyah (Islamic Society) leadership has publicly renounced violence in the past year or so.'
(quote from Amir Taheri article, 10-03-03-)

"It is ironic that on the eve of the murderous action of Islamists on Sept 11th, when Islamists claimed that the world wants them to continue their atrocities, and they kept talking of hate for Americans abroad, more and more the people of the Middle East are passing a hand of rejection to the Islamists, and not just the people who do not care for religion or Islam, but even a great majority of Muslims do not want to hear or see the Islamists anymore, and have had enough murder and terror of the Islamists especially in the last 30 years"
"...the common reality is that the Islamic Fundamentalism of the end of 1970's is now disintegrating." "The order which has suppressed the Middle Eastern people all these years, and the Islamists are now at the end of their road, when people are calling for full secularism." (Sam Ghandchi)

[mil-vet]

Hmmmm. Granted the media does a Pee-poor job of reporting anything that doesn't fit their liberal socialist pondscum (LSP) agenda, but I have little faith that the examples you site are not most or all of the only anti-violence "articles" in existence (half-dozen out of thousands); after all, there are muslim-terrorist attacks world-wide, daily, which illustrate clearly and unequivocally what islam is all about.

Until muslims start turning terrorists over to appropriate authorities world-wide, daily, instead of blowing themselves up in stupid muslim death tricks, I won't believe a mere handful of muslims crying "peace" in the wilderness will have much effect on however many billion "kill infidel" types living according to the koran......

[nuconvert]

"after all, there are muslim-terrorist attacks world-wide, daily,"

There aren't a billion, and you have no idea that Muslims aren't "turning terrorists over to appropriate authorities"
In fact, I'm sure they are. Whom do you think is informing on them in Iraq?

"billion "kill infidel" types living according to the koran" Luckily, a billion don't live according to the Koran. Think of the trouble we'd be in if they did. That's
why we need to support them in changing their religion and getting rid of the extremists/fundamentalists.
If they successfully ostracize the terrorists, then the terrorists will have no one. And we can take care of them.
No Problem.

[dennisw]

The politically incorrect guide to "Islam in a nutshell".

[tet68]

American Muslims who want no part of Islamofascist ideology are its first victims.

One could probably conjecture that it is already too late for them, when the extremeists begin the next round of
attacks, the "moderates" will be the second victims and those that survive will be driven into the extreme camp which is most likely what the extremeists want.

[tubavil]

Perhaps you could look it up.

I'm sure it will come as shock to everyone but...

I called all the 'mainstream' muslim organizations in Seattle and none could answer any of my questions.

[mil-vet]

No problem WRONG!! BIG problem!

You aren't gonna change these pondscum. They are the only ones who can change themselves, and ONLY IF THEY WANT TO!! What part of "we don't want peace, we want to kill you" do you not understand?? They do not want to change, they want you dead. DUH!

Iraqis are informing on terrorists in Iraq. Their informing has nothing to do with the religion of either the terrorist or the average Iraqi citizen who, in spite of the lies being told by the western mainstream press, is happy the coalition is there and want to see the violence end in his country.

As a matter of fact, the whole Iraqi connection to terrorism is 99% fiscal and based not on religion but a desire for revenge after the destruction in 1991 of the then 4th largest military force in the world. Saddam's forces ended up with their sorry butts firmly kicked and mostly blown away - the mother of all whimpers!

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I STILL don't see any MEANINGFUL outcry by muslims in general, ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, against stupid muslim death tricks. As previously stated, this silence is de facto support for terrorism, and until I see WIDESPREAD outcry from a MAJORITY of (supposedly) "moderate" muslims against terrorism, I consider them all complicit.

Call it prejudice if you want; I call it common sense: I do not trust any non-Turkish muslim, no way, no how, and if they move funny, I'm shooting first!

[nuconvert]

ones who can change themselves,"

Exactly.
Try reading this again:

"That's
why we need to support them in changing their religion and getting rid of the extremists/fundamentalists.
If they successfully ostracize the terrorists, then the terrorists will have no one. And we can take care of them.
No Problem." (Meaning after they have no support - I think we can handle them then, don't you?)

You're wrong about them wanting change. You can think whatever ill-informed thoughts you want. I know it's the news media's fault, not your's.
What the Iraqi citizens are doing is turning in terrorists.
Everyone isn't protecting the terrorists just because they're Muslims, and the U.S. military are "infidels". If they believed as strongly as you say, they wouldn't be turning them over to the "infidels".
Do you know for a fact that no muslims are turning in al-Qaeda? I think it's a good guess that some are.
Forget the outcry. You're not understanding the dangers involved in doing that. Even in this country, people are threatened if they dare speak out against terrorists. That's the way it works. You speak up, and the next day some guy from Hamas is at your door. Since these people came from countries where they've seen this happen to others, it doesn't take much to scare them into shutting-up. The "silence" as you put it, is not de facto support.
And the level of "silence" has been lessening, to reveal what has been going on underneath; a quiet movement, to rid the Islamic religion of its rotten few at the core.
This is a war on terrorism, not a war on Islam. And considering the numbers, it's a good thing we don't have to fight all of Islam.