'Real and Definite Threat' Caused BA Flight Cancellation

The Scotsman ^ | Jan 02 2004 | By Caroline Gammell, PA News

[Dog]

'Real and Definite Threat' Caused BA Flight Cancellation

By Caroline Gammell, PA News

The cancellation of British Airways flight BA223 from Heathrow to Washington was caused by a “real and definite threat”, a defence expert warned today.

The plane had already started checking in passengers and was due to leave at 3.05pm.

But BA announced it had been cancelled at 1.15pm – less than two hours before take off – for security reasons.

Paul Beaver, a defence analyst, said: “This is certainly unusual. The intelligence is very, very precise which is why this one flight has been cancelled.

“We have got intelligence, I am told, that there was a plan to take the aircraft and destroy it over Washington or fly it into something.

“Washington is the definite target.”

Mr Beaver said the information passed on to BA via the Government was likely to have come from American intelligence.

“All I know is there is a real and definite threat.”

He went on: “There is good and precise intelligence that there is more than one al Qaida or al Qaida-like group operating against the US.

“One is based in central America and the other is based in Europe – in London or Paris.”

Mr Beaver said it was not known whether operatives in these potential terror cells are carrying legal British passports.

Yesterday’s flight BA223 was also cancelled several hours before it was scheduled to depart after BA received “security advice” from the Government.

On New Year’s Eve, the same flight had been kept on the runway for three hours after landing at Washington Dulles International Airport to allow security officials to board the plane and question passengers.

The Boeing 747 was escorted into Dulles by two F-16 fighter jets.

An Aeromexico flight from Mexico City to Los Angeles was also cancelled after US authorities refused to allow it to land.

Flight 490 was cancelled after Homeland Security officials said they were concerned it might be a safety risk, said a spokesman for Mexico’s President Vicente Fox.

[HardStarboard]

>>>Theory C<<<

Possibly, but do you want to bet your life on it? They wern't bluffing on 9/11 either, so they have a track record.

[Anti-McGovern]

I think if it were that level of threat (and we're talking DHS perception here) then we'd already be at RED. We're talking about a lot of lives here.

If we do go to RED, then they'll shut down air access to DC as they did post 9/11.

Hence, (not saying you are wrong) I don't DHS perceives threat as nuclear. But quite possibly conventional explosives along the lines you have discussed.

[jerseygirl]

Would a radiation detector pick up an unexploded nuke?

[Sender]

If AQ does have nukes, they don't have to know how to maintain them or operate them, they can just hire ex-nuke techs to do it.

Look at all the millions of $$$ in drugs seized recently, with billions more in opium and billions more funnelled from Saudis and fundraising sources...now think about all the ex-Soviet highly-educated physics types that can't afford to keep Mama's heat on this winter because they haven't been paid...it's not hard to imagine hiring the necessary expertise with no questions asked.

[Anti-McGovern]

Depends on distance to source. And shielding. However, shielding adds weight...which is at a premium if you want to *hide* this thing on an airplane.

I really want to harp on the weight issue. If a plane is overweight, by even a small amount, that should be very easily detected by avionics. Thus, if the bomb were hidden illicitly by ground crews, they would have to figure out some way to jiggle around w. the manifest to account for the properly screened baggage + passengers.

[Jim Noble]

JN - That's what I've been thinking as well. Have sleeper ground crew load a nuke on this particular flight, RF controlled detonation at a specific spot on approach to DC.

There is a BA major airframe maintenance facility at Islamabad.

I have been pooh-poohing the suitcase nukes because a 5 kt groundburst would just piss us off.

A 100 kt Pakistani nuke airburst over DC or LA, OTOH, would rearrange our scenery.

[Eva]

Finally, something more definitive. This is similar wording to the warning that was given regarding the shut down of the Port of Valdez ( real and credible evidence of a threat)

[alnick]

Oops. Wrong thread. I thought I was posting to the live thread about the Michael Jackson impersonator on Hannity's radio show.

Sorry.

[angkor]

Unless they've got Paki nukes (~100 kt).

Could be anything in the suitcase (1-2 Kt) to 100 Kt range, no one really knows what AQ has although my gut says they have something, and want to use it badly.

Lots of Soviet stuff has gone missing beyond suitcase nukes.

[longjack]

Here's an another interesting piece of the puzzle I found at the "Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung" (a Frankfurt, Germany newspaper) site

A little more fuel for the fire..

---

..start excerpt..

Crisis meeting in London

Representatives of BA consulted in a crisis meeting whether the afternoon flight should leave for Washington. It was mentioned in knowledgeable circles that there is, apparently, a "specific threat" against this flight. The fully booked Boeing 747 would have flown back on late Friday evening from Washington to London. BA said this flight also had to be cancelled as a result of the earlier cancellation. According to information from security circles, the British government received the tips leading to the Thursday and Friday flight cuts from American security services.

The aeronautics expert Philip Baum, editor of the magazine "Aviation Security International", assumes there are detailed secret service tips. "I think they must have credible knowledge which indicates that certain airlines on certain routes are possible targets for terrorist attacks". It could be possible, however, that the USA could have demanded the presence of armed marshals on board and the BA pilots could have decided not to take off because of that.

..end excerpt..

"Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung"....British Airways streicht wieder Flüge

Translated by longjack

[Sender]

Well hey, we needed an injection of humor in this thread:)

What time does Micheal Jackson like to have sex?
When the big hand touches the little hand.

[Peach]

You posted the dates that fall between the EID (sp?).

[LikeLight]

The "missing 747" was a "727" (a much smaller aircraft) . . .

[angkor]

Blowing up a plane approaching Dulles while its over DC would be a grotesque and horrible form of fireworks, but not much more. The altitude is too high at that point in the Dulles approach to do any damage to DC itself.

[AlfAlpha]

Hi folks... I'm new here. just to note... lack of lots of shielding might be picked up in the plane's electronics... and others for that matter. If a laptop computer or raio transmitter can disrupt some electronic flight controls... I can't imagine a wmd electrical and nuclear in nature would not really screw up the cockpit instrumentation.

[nicmarlo]

Is it too far-fetched to think that the remote control device is positioned with an individual offshore, not on land?

[jstolzen]

There's a great article on:

http://www.worldthreats.com

About AQ's acquisition and MAINTENANCE of the WMDs.

Basically, there were LOTS of unemployed USSR nuke scientists that wanted work. And AQ hired them.

Not inconceivable!!