Pete Rose's Pony Ride

The Polo Grounds: A Calm Review of Baseball ^ | 23 July 2002 | Jeff Kallman

[BluesDuke]

P.S...And I guess you could argue that there are many characters in the Hall with similiar qualities of character.

We could argue that there are many enough characters in the Hall of Fame with lesser character than Pete Rose. (His idol Ty Cobb comes immediately to mind, though I have elsewhere read that so long as Ty Cobb didn't feel threatened, in any situation, he could actually be and often was a very nice fellow.) But it is as Bill James enunciated: Rose isn't banned from baseball because he was a bad person, he's banned because he broke the rules. For better or worse, many enough behaviours we would deem suspect if not immoral are not against the rules of professional sports but gambling is, and not just in baseball. (Think, for example, of all those periodic point-shaving scandals that hit basketball every few years.)

On the other hand, Pete Rose was never accused of hanging his manager by his legs out the window of a speeding train - as Babe Ruth actually did once do...

[BluesDuke]

Again, it wasn't my intention to be insulting but only to point out how much that one statement struck me as overly optimistic about our society's ability to feel moral outrage over true injustice.

I probably had in mind those among us who do feel such outrage. I tend to believe there are more such than acknowledged, but that they don't all have outlets to enunciate their thought, whether as employed writers or a fellow like me trying to reconstitute his professional life. (I am not at present formally employed as a writer, though I have been a professional ever since the end of my Air Force days in 1987, and the one-man show Webzine where I published this thread's title essay originally this week is one I write and edit myself, on the ground that even if one is not being paid again to write, just yet, one must still keep the instrument in tune sharply. That and I, like George Will, wanted to be a baseball writer when I grew up.)

[Flashlight]

...I didn't have the heart to ask how such a seemingly civil city could break the neighbourhood over a pair of World Series wins...

I can tell you about the '84 celebration, having witnessed it first-hand.

Though, I missed some of it because I had to wash the blood from my hand and try to stop the bleeding, due to slipping and falling off the damn light pole. I did take advantage of my being temporarily stuck in the Shell gas-station garage (where they let me use their fawcett) across from the stadium to call home. I remember my father telling me that there was a riot going on down there. I looked out the window and confirmed that, yes, there was a riot going on down here. I also said that I'd have to stay here awhile, because my car would have to cross Michigan Avenue, and I didn't want my car destroyed.

Anyway, I wonder what I could get on Ebay for eighteen-year old outfield turf and a couple of light bulbs taken from the left-field auxilliary scoreboard that night.

But, as far as I could see, the damage was limited to a few cars, and a lot of "disrespecting" of Detroit Police who were trying to end all the fun. There were no busisess that were looted or anything like that.

But, to answer your question, I guess I have no idea why fans would behave like that. I know I never would (again). I guess it's just that a few idiots can really make a big show and ruin the reputation of the whole group.

[BluesDuke]

I guess it's just that a few idiots can really make a big show and ruin the reputation of the whole group.

Goes back to the syndrome we news folk (I've been a journalist for the better part of my adult life, though currently not formally employed as one) describe as, well, it's news when the plane crashes but no one wants to pick up the paper or turn on the television and hear that several million flights a week take off and land safe and sound (although, in the immediate weeks after 9/11, you can understand where it almost flipped over for awhile!). That kind of thing. For better or worse, the idiot brigades get the attention precisely because they are in the minority. Comparing the two Detroit World Series explosions, I'd have to say the 1968 eruption was probably more crowded and violent than the 1984 eruption, though I don't remember anyone overturning cars as was reported to have happened in '84. And, dearly though I love the Chicago Cubs' endearing mystique of the long dark hours of failure, and long-enough-time Red Sox fan though I have been, I'm almost half afraid of what would happen if the Cubs or the Red Sox should win a World Series again - or, better yet, if they should play each other in the Series and one (as must happen) wins.

Apparently, it isn't always the celebrating fans who are ready to trash the joint. When the Cubs beat the Tigers to win the 1906 World Series (yep, you can look it up - the Cubs), Cub pitching ace Three-Finger Brown would remember the club practically needing a police escort to get out of town alive. And, of course, recent memory instructs about the all-but-riot that broke out in Los Angeles after the Lakers won the first of their current three straight NBA titles. (It probably wasn't half as bad as people saw in news reports, but like you said - the idiot brigades live...)

Which reminds me of how some hemmed, hawed, and harrumphed when Shea Stadium fans exploded into bedlam on the field after the 1969 Miracle Mets nailed that Series against Baltimore. The hem-haw-harrumphers forgot that the worst those fans did was turn the playing field into the survivors of a close-air-support bombing raid (there's a famous picture of Met pitchers Tom Seaver and Gary Gentry walking across the field after the crowd was gone at last, still in their uniforms, surveying the damage) - but New York City itself went unscathed. And the ticker-tape parade bestowed upon the Mets was a crowd crunch but almost nothing more.

I have also read where Brooklyn went apesh@t following the Dodgers' only World Series triumph there (in 1955) but that the only untoward thing that happened was the shooting of a Dodger fan in a Brooklyn tavern by a visiting Yankee fan (who admitted he couldn't bear the thought of his Yankees losing even one Series to them Bums), but otherwise Brooklyn was one loud and crazy party with nothing destructive.

[MozarkDawg]

Hey, cut that out...you two guys are making me blush! ;)

A little Pancake No. 10 oughta take care of that!

Good read, as always ... so apparently, I don't need to buy the book, eh? :)

[BluesDuke]

*ROFL*

Whaddya mean, you don't have to buy the book? ;)

[2Trievers]

Hehehe ... &;-)

[altair]

Recent memory instructs about the all-but-riot that broke out in Los Angeles after the Lakers won the first of their current three straight NBA titles.

How sad. I went to the parade in '88 (?) after they won the second of the back-to-back championships and it was civilized.

[BluesDuke]

So was this year's parade. They kept everything well enough in order and a splendid time seemed guaranteed by one and all (I listened over the radio to the parade and celebration ceremonies). As I recall reading, so was the hoopla when the Dodgers won the 1988 World Series. Now that I think of it, the weirdest thing that happened with the 1986 Series was the parachutist who dropped from the sky to aside the pitcher's mound carrying a "Go Mets" sign...

[xp38]

When the Cubs beat the Tigers to win the 1906 World Series (yep, you can look it up - the Cubs)

Well I looked it up Blues..seems you were off by a year or two. In 1906 the White Sox defeated the Cubs 4 games to 2 in the World Series. In 1907 and 1908 The Cubs won their World Series both over Detroit by 4-0 and 4-1 respectively. 6 more seasons to the century mark for no Cub World Series Championships. Red Sox fans still have about 16 or so seasons to go...should be an interesting "celebration" for both of them.

[BluesDuke]

Right you are - nice catch on my typo! I should have remembered the actual dates, especially since I had just been re-reading something about the crowd madness that caused the Cubs to need the police to get out of town alive, and boy should I have remembered 1906 as the year the Hitless Wonders White Sox knocked off the Cubs in the Series. (Does that say Cubs all over, that they could lose a Series to a team nicknamed the Hitless Wonders?) Though I have to admit, reading the teams on paper, I'm surprised the '07 Tigers didn't at least play even-up with the Cubs, take it to a seventh game, the '07 Tigers were a good enough team...

I have seen much speculation and fantasising on the idea that maybe the only way to bust the infamous Curse of the Bambino would be for the Red Sox to meet and beat the Cubs in a Series again, since the 1918 Series matched the two teams and Ruth was still one of the Sox's top pitchers. I find it fascinating enough a prospect, but with my luck what'll happen is - such a Series goes down to a seventh game, they get to the bottom of the ninth (in Fenway Park, of course!), and the Red Sox launch a two-out rally, get the bases loaded, and...the second great Northeastern power failure hits, Boston blacks out, and still-Alleged Commissioner Bug Selig declares that in the interest of fairness due to circumstances beyond his control, he is thereby proclaiming the Series a tie and splitting the championship.

[xp38]

:) You create good fantasies too!!!

[BluesDuke]

The only problem is, we Red Sox fans (Cub fans, too, for that matter) would be only too afraid that my little fantasy is precisely what would occur!

[MAXFAX]

Pete Rose lied for 14 years about betting on baseball. He now claims that he never bet AGAINST the team ha managed. Why should he be believed now? He releases his book at the same time some players who EARNED their way into the HOF are being announced. Pete Rose should be allowed into the HOF, with a plaque that has no bust(just a name) and states why he was banned. However, he should never be allowed to manage, coach, scout, or have any other position with any MLB team. He lost that right by means of his own deceit.

Fool me once, shame on you; Fool me twice, shame on me.