Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Finally, A Solution To The Problem Of Intermittent Power Generation -- The "Virtual Power Plant"
Manhattan Contrarian ^ | 20 May, 2023 | Francis Menton

Posted on 05/22/2023 5:13:39 AM PDT by MtnClimber

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041 next last
To: marktwain; BlackbirdSST
I think before we reach that point, a hefty portion of Americans will learn to be more self-reliant. Not everyone will be able to produce most of their energy, but the few who are in a situation for it will. (Think solar with a prepper mindset instead of a warmageddon cult mindset.)

This is why our home solar produces 80% of the power my wife and I need in our all-electric home, with a plan to increase that if necessary. It's also why we're doing a lot more gardening, again with plans to increase our food production if necessary. The self-reliant Americans might sit back and let the elites wipe out their loyal Dim voters, which will reduce the power of the elites.

21 posted on 05/22/2023 7:34:21 AM PDT by Tell It Right (1st Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Tell It Right

Self-reliance is the bane of the elite. Self-reliance is the backbone of a Republic, within limits. Everyone is reliant on the rule of law and ordered liberty.


22 posted on 05/22/2023 7:39:17 AM PDT by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: MtnClimber

“Distributed Generation”

This is dozens — tens of thousands of roof tops and other spaces — tops of shopping malls and parking structures as just two examples — all equipped with their own (smaller) battery banks, and all contributing to “the grid”.

Massive centralized generation and massive battery banks are inefficient, and “ten-ring vulnerable” as targets.

Distributed generation can’t easily be knocked out, as it comes from literally everywhere.

All the technology is now on the shelf to do this. Now. Today. Some residential solar electric systems already are tied in to their local grid and generate more than they use. Right now. Today.

Just make or incentivize many more. (Probably each one would be made a bit larger than they are at the moment, to provide some extra margin.)


23 posted on 05/22/2023 7:59:29 AM PDT by William of Barsoom (In Omnia, Paratus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tell It Right
The self-reliant Americans might sit back and let the elites wipe out their loyal Dim voters, which will reduce the power of the elites.

The elites will confiscate your stuff before they will allow their power base to be affected. Do not assume they are stupid.

24 posted on 05/22/2023 8:08:57 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (We live in a time where intelligent people are being silenced so stupid people won’t be offended)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: MtnClimber

All the devises in your home will be controlled by the government and utilities.they will regulate the among a time of use. Not to mention the cost Apple seems to have started this already with their optimal charging.


25 posted on 05/22/2023 8:19:58 AM PDT by 5inch38gunner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 5inch38gunner

In their utopian world all things are possible.


26 posted on 05/22/2023 8:27:01 AM PDT by 5inch38gunner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: PapaBear3625
They can take my Bible, my garden, my solar panels, and my guns from my cold dead hands.

They can take my Bible, my garden, my solar panels, and my guns from my cold dead hands.

27 posted on 05/22/2023 8:28:19 AM PDT by Tell It Right (1st Thessalonians 5:21 -- Put everything to the test, hold fast to that which is true.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: 5inch38gunner
All the devises in your home will be controlled by the government and utilities.they will regulate the among a time of use. Not to mention the cost Apple seems to have started this already with their optimal charging.

And you will be prioritized based on your social credit score.

28 posted on 05/22/2023 8:30:47 AM PDT by MtnClimber (For photos of Colorado scenery and wildlife, click on my screen name for my FR home page.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: MMusson
"To replace a 100MW coal plant with a 100MW solar farm is easy. But the 100MW solar farm only produces 100MW from 10am to 4pm. So, you really need 18 hours of energy storage or 1800MWs. This requires 4 100MW solar farms since 3 are just for charging the batteries.

Replacing 1 100MW Coal plant requires 4 100MW solar farms and 1800MW of energy storage.

If you want to have backup for rainy days replacing 1 100MW coal plant requires 4200MW of energy storage and 8 100MW solar farms."

It's actually much worse than that. Your math would be correct only if storage and removal of power with batteries was lossless. It is not. The most optimistic models are that you can only get ~80% of the energy you put in to come back out in the form of usable electricity.

So, if you put in 100MW of power, you'd return 80MW of power in an optimal situation. Your 4 100MW battery-storage banks would need to be 5 100MW banks. And, then that only applies if you have full-sun each and every day.

Because you don't know that the sun will shine every day, or that solar arrays will be generating peak power (which they don't on cloudy days), you need enough storage to potentially cover you for multiple days of no (or low) solar generation.

Another technology being studied is to make power-generating reservoirs (lakes), where your solar arrays power pumps that move water into a reservoir. When power is needed, it is released through hydro-generating turbines to make electricity, effectively "recycling" the water. Good luck with this too, as you're not going to move 100% of the water back upstream (so there's loss), and rivers that are capable of the volumes required for hydro-power are already used for that (but without the round-trip use). I can only imagine the greenies' heads exploding when they hear new reservoirs and new dams will be required.

29 posted on 05/22/2023 8:33:20 AM PDT by Be Free (When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Tell It Right
They can take my Bible, my garden, my solar panels, and my guns from my cold dead hands.

That is exactly their plan.

30 posted on 05/22/2023 8:37:53 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (We live in a time where intelligent people are being silenced so stupid people won’t be offended)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: William of Barsoom
All the technology is now on the shelf to do this. Now. Today. Some residential solar electric systems already are tied in to their local grid and generate more than they use. Right now. Today.

Only at extremely high cost.

The ability to tie this all into the grid is not feasible at this time. Perhaps it can be in the future. The problem is in shutting down the grid and bringing it back up. You have to be able to shut down each contributor to the grid and isolate them from the grid. It is very difficult in practice, though it sounds easy.

31 posted on 05/22/2023 9:03:05 AM PDT by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
Some residential solar electric systems already are tied in to their local grid and generate more than they use. Right now. Today.

I have one of those systems. It generates more than I use. It is tied into the grid. When the grid goes down, the system is shut down. Including battery charging into the system is expensive, and not so easy to do. Not impossible, but currently, residential systems which are tied into the grid are shut down when the grid goes down, so as to prevent repair crews from being fried.

32 posted on 05/22/2023 9:06:28 AM PDT by marktwain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: MtnClimber

It’s one more front in the all-out war against your well-being now being waged by our government.


What is the purpose of government?


33 posted on 05/22/2023 9:06:29 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MMusson; Red Badger; SunkenCiv; Kaslin; BenLurkin

Correct math. But nobody gets to hear that math. The-powers-that-be REFUSE to let that math be printed, be released on the news channels and even YouTube.


34 posted on 05/22/2023 10:26:36 AM PDT by Robert A Cook PE (Method, motive, and opportunity: No morals, shear madness and hatred by those who cheat.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Spok
There’s an old saying that says “close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades”.

And NUKES!

35 posted on 05/22/2023 11:59:41 AM PDT by JimRed (TERM LIMITS, NOW! Militia to the border! TRUTH is the new HATE SPEECH.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Spok
There’s an old saying that says “close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades”.

And NUKES!

36 posted on 05/22/2023 11:59:41 AM PDT by JimRed (TERM LIMITS, NOW! Militia to the border! TRUTH is the new HATE SPEECH.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: bk1000
The only way their plan works is if they kill enough useless eaters.

So, if "they" become targets of opportunity and we kill them, it is not murder, but self-defense.

37 posted on 05/22/2023 12:04:07 PM PDT by JimRed (TERM LIMITS, NOW! Militia to the border! TRUTH is the new HATE SPEECH.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: marktwain
...but currently, residential systems which are tied into the grid are shut down when the grid goes down, so as to prevent repair crews from being fried.

So when they go down and my generator kicks in, they disconnect me, shut me down? Then what's the point of a generator?

38 posted on 05/22/2023 12:08:30 PM PDT by JimRed (TERM LIMITS, NOW! Militia to the border! TRUTH is the new HATE SPEECH.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: JimRed

“So, if “they” become targets of opportunity and we kill them, it is not murder, but self-defense.”

Pretty much how I see it too.


39 posted on 05/22/2023 5:16:25 PM PDT by bk1000 (Banned from Breitbart)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: MtnClimber

The virtual power plant will be using Unobtainium as fuel.


40 posted on 05/22/2023 5:19:51 PM PDT by minnesota_bound (Need more money to buy everything now)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson