Posted on 03/31/2023 11:22:07 AM PDT by Red Badger
Lol. I on the other hand found it endlessly entertaining. Like Plan 9 From Outer Space. I’ve seldom laughed so hard.
There’s no birds on Mt. Everest or K5. So the tallest mountains were too tall for birds but visible from the right angle.
Did you know Billie Joe?
Better than “Earth Girls are Easy”?
I knew Terry Joe, his cousin..................
But the mountain tops were still certainly part of the surface of the whole Earth taken in a strict sense. Thus we know that at least in Genesis 8:9 the phrase was not meant in a strict sense.
Psalm 104:5-9 seems to also suggest against a global flood. Verse 5 sets the time reference to creation, verse 6 is creation "Day" 2's of water. Verses 7-8 seem to be a retelling of creation "Day" 3's land forming with mountains rising and valleys falling. Then verse 9 says that the boundaries of water were made so that the waters will not return to cover the earth. Now this is a Psalm, so we have to allow for a bit of poetic leeway. But it suggests to me once the creation events were completed that water would never cover the earth again. Which suggests the later Noah flood wasn't global.
Perhaps the best evidence for a regional flood is Genesis 7:22's use of the Hebrew word "haraba" for dry land. A word that doesn't have a definition for planet like other Hebrew words do. That's the scope of the flood where, as the verse says, "Everything on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath and spirit of life, died." (AMP version) The choice of the Hebrew word "haraba" should probably best translated as "...on the region of land...".
ping for later
I knew it! I was thinking about this a couple of weeks ago and thought about the springs like Roaring River in Arkansas where crystal blue water flows and no source is known. Then I thought, where did all the flood water go? glub, glub. I did also wondered how all the trees and grass survived.
There are many cultures with stories of a great flood. Could widen the search. :)
I think you are pushing your own idea into the text.
...5 The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first day of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible.
... 9 But the dove could find nowhere to perch because there was water over all the surface of the earth....
It is very clear to me that the mountain tops were still submerged but you could see the tops just under the water if you looked over the side of the boat.
Its even stated in 9 again that the water covered everything.
“Seems a careful reading forces one to take “over all the surface of the earth” to at least not include the mountain tops in verse 5.” - You project that the MTs are sticking out of the water.
- Seems to me a MORE CAREFUL, CAREFUL reading should be done. - I have see plenty of submerged Rocks, Islands, while in my boat... I even hit a few too.
“Day” 3’s land forming with mountains rising and valleys falling. Then verse 9 says that the boundaries of water were made so that the waters will not return to cover the earth.”
This strengthens my belief that I posted in 51.
“And if the waters were to burst forth, what would replace its volume in the mantle?”
I believe the continental plates shifted cataclysmicly sliding and riding onto one another thus creating the mountains we have today. Pretty much the same thing the secularist believe but they believe in millions and billions of years... I believe it was very rapid. The land would have subsided or sunk and the some water would have stayed on top forming the oceans.
Events happen underwater even to this day, we know this because we have huge underwater rockslides that create tsunamis.
Earth Girls are Easy was meant to be a farce. Noah was done seriously. That gives it the edge.
If you see in my comment #12 I lean towards a universal flood even if it was regional and not global. In other words, I believe the flood killed everybody on the planet (except for the people in the ark) even if I have questions about how much of the planet was covered by the flood. The flood could have happened at a point in time when all of the world's population still lived in the "cradle of civilization" (I love that archaeological evidence backs up the Bible text of where civilization began, but that's another topic) before they migrated out to the rest of the planet. And whether or not the flood covered the planet, if all of todays people are descendants of the ark (as you and I believe) there's no surprise the story of the flood is in many cultures.
Back to the main point which is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis. If you note, I use phrases like "suggests" and "lean towards" and "it's possible" because an eisegesis reading of the Bible text shouldn't conclude in beliefs that we draw a line in the sand over. The only time we should stand firm in our Bible beliefs are things we get from an exegesis reading.
I can see that. Even if I don't believe it myself, what you say is at least enough to make me stop and go "hmmmmm....maybe".
I lean towards an old earth interpretation of the Genesis creation events. I don't believe in what some refer to as "theistic evolution" (the belief that God deserves credit for creating all life, but He did it by forming the earliest organisms and built in natural selection and pretty much sat back for billions of years watching His creation unfold). I believe God intervened at moments of time in Creation and made things happen with His own word, just not necessarily constrained to a 7 day period that occurred 6,000 years ago. For example, it's possible that the week-old earth is true and God gave Adam some kind of superhuman energy and A-D-D disorder so that, beginning at whatever point in Day 6 that God made Adam, Adam was able to name all of the animals and still somehow be bored enough to be lonely before the end of the day. But since the Bible doesn't describe that facet of Adam's abilities as being miraculous, I try to not to assume it, especially given so much of the rest of the Genesis text has no problem describe miraculous events as such. I believe all of the creation events happened in the same order as detailed, only that the "days" (yom in Hebrew) might be either 12-hour days (like daytime), 24-hour days, or eras of unspecified lengths. All 3 of those are valid definitions of the Hebrew word. And the phrase "evening then morning" is sometimes used as a transition of an era, not always the changing of a calendar day. So it's possible with our eternal God that creation happened across billions of years with God having multiple eras in which He created this part of creation, then the next part for a while, then the next part for a while, etc.
If you believe that like I do, then you'd probably find it fascinating to study the Cambrian explosion and how it shows an "explosive" occurrence of new species and even new phyla within a brief time. ("Brief" to the Darwinists who demand a slow speciation across billions of years to create human beings.) See, us Bible believing Christians don't demand a timeline of either 6,000 years or billions of years to be backed up by archaeology. An exegesis reading doesn't specify exactly when creation happened or how long it took. But Darwin and his followers demand a slow speciation across billions of years that the Cambrian explosion (and other small "explosions") say happened mostly within 500,000 to 1 million years. Literally 50% to 80% of all known phyla all of a sudden appear in the archaeological record about 500 million years ago within less than a million years. This blows the theory of evolution out of the water by making the math off by at least a factor of 1,000. Time to degrade evolution from a theory to a hypothesis or perhaps even to a disproved hypothesis. IMHO its evidence of God's creation hand with Era 6 of creation having Him intervening and making new phyla and species for a few thousand years, then more new phyla and species for a few thousand years, so much faster than can be explained by the secularists, but not fast enough for young earth creationists either.
Like I said, I lean towards this old earth belief. It's not an exegesis reading of the creation text, though. So I'm not willing to count that as a defining Christian belief.
I wouldn’t know. I wasn’t around
Yabbut I was comparing it to Plan 9 not Noah.
My house is about 35 miles from the Gulf, and my well is 465’ deep. However, that was to get the good clean water.
11 Noah was 600 years old. It was the 17th day of the second month of the year. On that day all of the springs at the bottom of the oceans burst open. God opened the windows of the sky. 12 Rain fell on the earth for 40 days and 40 nights.
If you take it as a farce I could see where it could comically entertaining. The danger is face palming so hard you knock yourself out or laughing until you pass out.
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