Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

AXC Crystal ship owners to pay for a portion of damage to USS Fitzgerald

Posted on 01/12/2019 2:41:07 AM PST by Bull Snipe

The owners of the container ship AXC Crystal agreed to pay 27 million dollars to the United States Government to settle their liability in a collision with USS Fitzgerald DD 62. The collision took place in the early morning of 6/17/18 S.W of the entrance to Tokyo Bay.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/01/11/ship-owners-to-pay-us-government-for-fitzgerald-collision/


TOPICS: Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-50 last
To: Openurmind; rlmorel; Bull Snipe
I just ran across the article where ACX Crystal Capt. Ronald Advincula started off his report with this whopper of a lie (that I shot down in my #26:

"The Crystal steered hard to starboard to avoid the destroyer, but hit the Fitzgerald 10 minutes later at 1:30 a.m., according to Advincula's report that was seen by Reuters. "

Per AIS data, the Crystal steamed STRAIGHT on a course of 70 degrees -- at full speed -- during that entire ten-minute interval, It DID NOT perform any maneuver during that ten minutes -- much less "steered hard to starboard to avoid the destroyer".

Given that Advincula started out with that huge lie, I'm not inclined to believe his

"the Philippine-flagged ACX Crystal, had "signaled with flashing lights after the Fitzgerald 'suddenly' steamed onto a course to cross its path."

at all....

IMHO, he is trying to cover for the fact that he and his crew were asleep -- and had zero idea what had happened until he sent a crewman to examine the foredeck -- over a half-hour after the collision!

41 posted on 01/13/2019 9:22:06 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current Alias | "Barack": Satan's minion | "Muslims": Satan's useful idiots...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: TXnMA

agree, either the mate of the watch was asleep or camped out on the starboard bridge wing. Probably had absolutely no awareness of the impending collision until it happened.


42 posted on 01/14/2019 2:13:02 AM PST by Bull Snipe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: TXnMA
"...IMHO, he is trying to cover for the fact that he and his crew were asleep -- and had zero idea what had happened until he sent a crewman to examine the foredeck -- over a half-hour after the collision.."

I think that is a very definite thing to consider...

43 posted on 01/14/2019 6:53:18 AM PST by rlmorel (Leftists: They believe in the "Invisible Hand" only when it is guided by government.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Bull Snipe
"...The vast majority of the responsibility for the collision lies with the Fitzgerald’s Bridge and Combat watch officers. There actions got men killed and severely damaged a U.S. war ship..."

Agreed. I think ACS made this deal to put it to bed.

44 posted on 01/14/2019 6:54:49 AM PST by rlmorel (Leftists: They believe in the "Invisible Hand" only when it is guided by government.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: TXnMA; rlmorel

Can we regroup here and have a civil debate without the huge exclamatory billboards designed to deliver a death blow? Once again there really is no need for this in a civil and intelligent debate.

I get that you feel we could never be in the wrong or make mistakes. Unfortunately reality dictates this is just not true. Please let me share a comparison analogy to consider that might put things in better perspective for you concerning my view on this.

I think it very well IS true that the Crystal was asleep at the wheel. I am not arguing this very probable fact. What I question are the failures from the other party in this incident. Both were in the wrong and not just one can be blamed for this.

A sophisticated state of the art war machine just doesn’t allow it’s self to be ran over by a slow barge on a steady course with the “right of way”. Manned or unmanned is at that point totally irrelevant. Knowing they cannot be seen by other vessels, and having very sophisticated detection devices to see other vessels first, the responsibility was on the Fitzgerald to be on top of their game. And they were not or it would never have happened. So they are even more to blame than the other vessel under these circumstances considering the resources they had available to prevent it.

A comparison to what you are sharing here would be like saying that a Lockheed Martin F-35 is in no way at fault if it crosses the flight path of and is struck by a Handley Page. Then place all the blame on the pilot of the Handley Page because he blinked and ignore the huge technological advantages the F-35 had to prevent this very thing from happening.

The only way this could ever happen would be if the F-35 did not steer clear with responsible prudence and was purposely trying to buzz the Handley Page and screwed up doing it. There is absolutely no way the F-35 could not see the Handley Page far far ahead of it and take the responsibly to avoid it knowing it is a highly un-maneuverable Handley Page.

Although the Fitzgerald had their AIS off, does this mean they do not monitor the AIS beacons of all the vessels around them and fly blind? No, they still monitor this and they saw it just fine long before they got to it.


45 posted on 01/14/2019 7:01:57 AM PST by Openurmind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Openurmind

“A sophisticated state of the art war machine just doesn’t allow it’s self to be ran over by a slow barge on a steady course with the “right of way”.

That is exactly what happened. The Fitzgerald’s bridge and CIC watches were grossly derelict in the performance of their duties. Had they performed their duties as they should have, this incident would not have occurred.

“Knowing they cannot be seen by other vessels” Wrong. Fitzgerald is not invisible on radar. She produces a smaller radar blip on the screen, but she does produce a radar return. The collision happened at night. Fitzgerald’s navigation lights would have been on. Those lights are visible for a least 5 miles.

“The only way this could ever happen would be if the F-35 did not steer clear with responsible prudence.” That, again, is exactly what happened. The Fitzgerald did not steer clear with responsible prudence as required by Navy Regulations and International Law. The Bridge watch on Fitzgerald was complete oblivious to the reality of the situation and failed to act accordingly.


46 posted on 01/14/2019 9:49:30 AM PST by Bull Snipe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Bull Snipe

I agree but here is where I have huge questions. The Fitzgerald has numerous sophisticated detection devices that “see” just as well at night as they do anytime. And I am absolutely sure they can monitor and do monitor civilian AIS traffic themselves. How could ALL of this highly advanced instrument redundancy fail to see the Crystal? With these detection devices a visual lookout is redundant and almost unneeded in reality.

So I think the bridge watch was not oblivious to the presence of the Crystal yet for some reason refused to give right of way. Could the OOD have tried to force the Crystal to give right of way to the Fitzgerald even though they didn’t legally have the right of way? And then because the Crystal was asleep at the wheel they failed to even realize the Fitzgerald was attempting to make them give up right of way even though they had no right?

Could it have been “Just wait... We are a US Destroyer they will give way... Hold course they will give way... Oh crap! they are not giving!”. It would not be the first time we have stepped on our own foot with overconfidence.

Even if the Crystal was asleep at the wheel, to try and force right of way when you have no right of way would be the cause and sole fault.


47 posted on 01/14/2019 10:59:24 AM PST by Openurmind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Openurmind

“How could ALL of this highly advanced instrument redundancy fail to see the Crystal?” The instruments, radars, computers etc. “saw” the Crystal. The human eyes and brains that were suppose to do something reasonable with the information are the ones that failed in this incident. The equipment functioned fully, the humans did not.

you seem intent on trying to assign a reason for the Fitzgerald’s actions. She wasn’t trying to board, she wasn’t playing cat and mouse, she wasn’t playing chicken, and she wasn’t trying to force a right of way, she clearly didn’t have.

Pure and simple, the bridge watch on Fitzgerald lost the bubble, and for some amount of time didn’t have a clue as to the real situation facing them. The CIC watch failed to communicate with the bridge and aid them in the safe navigation of the ship. The Officers on watch on the bridge and CIC are responsible for the collision.

a competent watch officer with a set of field glasses, a compass repeater and an azmuth ring is all that is really required to avoid a collision at sea, in most cases. Radar, and multimillion dollar computers and AIC make the job easier, but it still requires a conscientious officer carrying out his duties to avoid a collision.


48 posted on 01/14/2019 11:36:59 AM PST by Bull Snipe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: Bull Snipe

I’m going to agree and leave it at that based on the info currently available because it does indeed fit well with what we have so far.


49 posted on 01/14/2019 12:06:01 PM PST by Openurmind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: rlmorel
FReepmail for you...

TXnMA
 

50 posted on 01/14/2019 11:05:44 PM PST by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current Alias | "Barack": Satan's minion | "Muslims": Satan's useful idiots...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-50 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson