A chat about student loans for Freepers with secondary education.

Curiosity ^ | 12/18/18 | Baynative

[Baynative]

I am curious about the growing conversation over the repayment or forgiveness of the $1.3 TRILLION (and growing) student loan debt.

Like everyone I knew who didn't have full scholarship, I worked my way through college and I don't remember ever meeting anyone who had a student loan.

[Baynative]

A good point regarding the ratio of cost to potential summer time earnings. In my college years 68-72, my tuition and books was about $700 a semester. I was able to earn $11.00 an hour working full time construction during the summer and about $60 a week working part time during the school year.

Looking at this list of affordable colleges , I can see the ability to make ends meet has changed considerably.

There could also be a greater prestige placed on the name of the school which I think gives the school a bit of a license to steal.

[Seaplaner]

For me, back in the 70s, I was able to get a BS and MS mostly with GIBill, a small amount from my folks, I worked, especially in grad school, and on top of it all, I had one thin term in which I borrowed $500 from the univ.

All worked out well, and I paid the $500 back well before any part of it was due.

Fast forwarding a bit, after college when I was applying for a home loan, the fact that I had paid off a student loan, and did so early, was apparently a very nice positive for my credit rating as a young dude.

[NEMDF]

My daughter graduated college in 2010, with a little over $20,000 in loans. She worked as much as she could, and I helped as much as I could, and her grandparents helped. She went 4 years and got Bachelor of Science/Registered Nurse degree. Went to a state university. Fortunately, she understood the need to pay off the loan, and did so.

I was a single parent, no child support at that age, I did what I could.

[itsahoot]

I always assumed that the need for financial help was pretty much limited to med students. Am I wrong?

Uh, yes, you are wrong.

[rebel25]

I am opening myself to get flamed here bigly, i went in under the delusion it would get me a job paying 30 percent more than i made for the first decade after graduating in 07 at 29 years old. I bought into society’s perpetual lie about college and my wife graduated s year later and together we owe 6 figures that will not be repaid more than likely as she is filing for disability now. From kindergarten on I was endocrinated that it was necessary and had no reason to doubt. Now i do, and pray for forgiveness or bankruptcy relief but alas no help. Removing the guarantees of student loans would drive the cost back down, as with anything when govt throws money at it it skyrockets the price

[Leaning Right]

> Not everyone should go to college. <

You’ve got that right. I always thought of college as mainly a place to learn a trade. But there are, of course, many trades that don’t require college. Plumbing, etc.

Side story: While working on a job site, my brother got to talking with a bricklayer. It turns out that the bricklayer had a PhD in mathematics. But bricklaying paid better.

[Agatsu77]

I went in the later 70s and I did need to take a student loan although I did work as well. For a 4 year degree I paid back just under $9k. I paid it off in 5 years. At the time that $9k was almost a years salary at the job I took right after graduating. I had an engineering degree. I don’t know how the social studies (I can’t bring myself to say sciences) managed. I worked through getting my graduate degrees.

College tuition is way over priced for what the students get today.

[Baynative]

"One of my kids recently completed his Bachelors Degree. He had some good scholarships and we loaned him some. He took out a small amount of student debt, about $15,000."

That's another point, I forgot to look up. It seems that there are scholarships available under thousands of categories and some funds are untapped.

[AppyPappy]

In the late 70’s, my in-laws used the student loans because they were at 4% and savings accounts were higher than that.

[pepsionice]

With tuition assistance via the Air Force, I accumulated 2 degrees with roughly $6k out of my pocket (1970s/1980s).

[Vigilanteman]

The way to fix it is for the federal government to get out of the Federal Loan guarantee in business and turn those over to the private sector. And make them dischargeable in a bankruptcy. Then free market lenders would only give loans to people who had a reasonable chance to pay them back with the degree they were getting, and universities would need to lower prices to attract students willing to take on those loans.

Lots of truth in your statements.

There are two successful alternative models in effect right now (not counting the unusal universities where tuition is free or given in exchange for hard work, military obligation, etc.):

1. Hillsdale College model (copied by a few others): No federal student loans allowed. Hillsdale has their own group of lenders who make loans at reasonable rates because Hillsdale graduates are employable and at low risk for default.

2. North Dakota model: North Dakota has a state owned bank which makes affordable loans for all state institutions of higher learning. They keep tuition rates reasonable and limit the amount of the loan based on field of study, academic progress and marketability of degree. Professional students (and fluff course majors) simply find themselves unable to borrow more at some point. Accordingly, the state's exposure to default debt is very limited and nearly all loans extended are paid off. Degrees are mostly marketable because few fluff degrees are offered. Tuition is reasonable, so no high amount of debt is possible for the reasons noted. All in all, a winning combination even with a state government involved because said state government is fiscally conservative.

[AppyPappy]

The reason the price is so high is because people are quick to take it....as you have discovered.
It’s not dischargeable in bankruptcy and you are about to discover that disability is basically government-run slavery.
She may qualify for some forgiveness due to disability.

[11th_VA]

I remember 20 years ago, going to 'Back to School Night' at my daughter's High School. At one of the stops, we met the Guidance Counselor. She told us how my daughter would qualify for many above average colleges. (I'd been thru the FAFSA process with three other kids, none that qualified for grants) and told the counselor she was likely going to the local community college like all my other kids.

The counselor looked at me like I was a child abuser, and told me how there was plenty of LOAN money available. We seemed to have left that night on unpleasant terms.

Twenty years later, all my kids make 6 digit incomes, two live in homes nicer than mine, and two own their own business.

But most importantly, all of them attend church on Sundays - no thanks to the public school system.

[SamAdams76]

After high school I joined the Marines, with the expectation I would get some college tuition. And I did. I came out of there with $8,100 in tuition benefits which went a long way back in the early 1980s.

Used the money for a one-year technical school (electronics, computer repair) and never looked back. Today, I make more money than the vast majority of college grads who went for the full four years. Zero college debt.

[Baynative]

I should have said, "back in my era"

[11th_VA]

North Dakota has a ...

I stopped reading after that. ND is too cold for most human beings .. :)

[Mouton]

I graduated in 67. Lived at home while attending local university. Took out no loans; there were none to be had.

I did not party my way through school. My dad told me as long as I kept my grades up they had no problem with supporting me but if I fell off the wagon, all bets were off. That included graduating in 4 years, or less.

My folks took care of me and I took care of the rest as I had a decent part time job, not one that paid a lot but allowed me to work around my schooling. Since it was in data processing, I learned a career trade too.

Dave Ramsey talks often about the high cost of college for those who go out of state or a prestige school. I think that has a lot to do with the huge costs a lot of students put themselves into. Also, some give no thought to what they will do with their degree. IMO, unless you or your family have unlimited resources one has to be cognizant of what they intend to do upon graduation.

Yes, college costs have gone up a lot. Mine were about 1000 per semester or 8K in total. Of course, my first annual salary after college was 5200. Today that same school is around 80K for four years. There is aid available. The average alum’s starting salary is around 35K so while not in the same ratio as mine, it is not far out of line. So, I don’t want to hear all the woe is me stuff. And when they graduate, they don’t have the prospect of making 100 a day once a month in the army!

[Vigilanteman]

As the locals say, 40 below keeps out the riff-raff. When I went to Jr./Sr. High School there, we were expected to go out running for phys ed in a t-shirt and shorts even during the wintertime. If we complained, we were told we would stay warmer if we moved faster.

The regimen was not modified even if it was below zero. Maybe if it was below zero, snowing and wind blowing hard. Just two of the three, forget it.

[grey_whiskers]

Remind me to send you a relevant Doonesbury strip from the 1970s.

[reed13k]

That pretty much ties with what we are seeing. After scholarships the girls are averaging 10k/semester (tuition + room/board). Pretty much add a 0 to any 60s numbers and you get todays #s.

I found it interesting that after sophomore year they pretty much kick everyone out of the dorms now to find an apartment on their own (except the RAs). That was fine for us because the apartment+food was much less expensive than the room/meal plan.