[NJ] Rowan University students handcuffed after police aim guns at them

In this case, it sounds like they were correct to control the scene first.

In much more benign circumstances of my own experience, I’ve never had a cop NOT say why he was now present in my life, e.g., “we received a complaint that...”

So in this case, I’d presume that once in cuffs, they’d say they were responding to the armed robbery complaint and the vehicle matched the description. Were it me, I’d get it. That’s not to say there aren’t times when I think force is excessive or flat out wrong, but that doesn’t seem to be the case here,.

There should be a class. They can fit it in by dropping the gay or global warming stuff.

Predictable answers; somebody disagrees with the excess of force/increased threat of being shot by law enforcement and the Usual Suspects come out and beat their breasts for the sanctity of cops.

Nobody questions the dangers inherent in police work. My Nephew-in-law, Deputy David Clark, was murdered in the line of duty by an illegal immigrant during a routine traffic stop in L.A.

But the problem is that police tactics emphasize way too much aggression when the job can be done less dangerously - for civilians and cops - by better training and tactics. The most obvious is always having two officers patrolling together, with one covering with the weapon's muzzle angled down, at a flank position and with a clear shot if things go South.

Nobody questions that traffic stops and entries are dangerous but there are methods to ensure the officer's safety while executing the job at hand.

My experience was with the Marines in 17 months in combat. We didn't shoot civilians or even VC suspects as long as they behaved and didn't try to fight. There were good, safe methods to apprehend and interrogate people without getting all crazy and killing them.

There were way too many incidents over the last few years of unarmed people, innocent people, surrendering people being shot and killed by cops.

We need better tactics, training, and most of all better winnowing of candidates before they are accepted for law enforcement.

I understand where you are coming from but if you read my post I responded to a specific scenario. No one should be shot unnecessarily. If they are its a tragedy but sometimes guns will be drawn appropriately and that is not something to legitimately complain about. Your suggestion may work in many instances but when an officer walks up to an open car window no one has a better view of things deteriorating and a gun drawn by him is not police aggression.

I have red button issues too but I was not sanctifying cops only responding to a poster that felt it was wrong to have guns pulled on a traffic stop.

The episode in Minnesota with the Australian woman illustrates your point very well and I take no issue in the need for training and periodic retraining. The ugly truth is that there will always be a few outcomes that could have been avoided if things played out a little more slowly or in better lighting but those must be minimized as far as humanly possible.

I think the facts are a necessary prelude to an intelligent discussion but are not sufficient as in this case.

My response was to a poster who complained about a gun being drawn, not a response to a fatality caused by a police officer. I was putting the situation in context to illustrate why an officer needs to be sure that the situation is under control. In some circumstances a gun will be drawn while the driver is evaluated if the behavior of the driver or a recent crime with vehicle/subject description warrants. It is not bad policing and if the driver is polite, complies with requests, keeps hands in sight there is no issue.

The NLEOMF announced in its 2017 Preliminary Law Enforcement Fatalities Report that 128 federal, state, local, tribal and territorial officers died in the line of duty over the past year, which is the lowest annual figure since 2013 when 117 officers died. The 128 officer fatalities in 2017 represents a 10 percent decrease over the 143 who died in the line of duty last year, and reversed three consecutive years of increases in officer deaths.

Traffic-related incidents claimed the lives of 47 officers in 2017, a 13 percent drop compared to the 54 officers killed in traffic-related incidents in 2016. However, there was an increase in the number of officers killed in single-vehicle collisions, with 14 officers killed compared to 11 in 2016. Single-vehicle crashes accounted for 42 percent of all fatal crashes in 2017.

The number of officers struck and killed while outside of their vehicle decreased 40 percent over last year, with nine in 2017 compared to 15 in 2016. Over the past 20 years, traffic-related incidents have been the number one cause of officer fatalities.

Forty-four officers were shot and killed across the country in 2017, which represents a 33 percent reduction over 2016 when 66 officers died as a result of gunfire. Seven of these fatalities involved officers responding to a domestic disturbance, the number one circumstance of firearms-related deaths.

Thirty-seven officers died from other causes in 2017. Sixteen of those deaths were attributed to job-related ailments, mostly heart attacks (10). Seven officers died as a result of being beaten. Five drowned while working during hurricanes Harvey, Irma and Maria. Four officers died as a result of an illness contracted during the 9/11 rescue and recovery efforts. Two officers died in a helicopter crash. Two died in boating accidents. One officer was stabbed to death.

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