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DINOSAURS and the Gravity Problem
The Anomalist ^ | 1994 | Ted Holden

Posted on 09/18/2018 11:13:53 AM PDT by Jed Eckert

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Old article but very interesting. (Some of my html got mangled in posting but a PDF is available at the link which includes other unrelated anomalies and theories)

Bottom line: no really big dinosaurs will ever exist in our modern earth even if they do clone them. If they ever do clone them best we can hope for would be something in the 7 ton range.(elephant size)

1 posted on 09/18/2018 11:13:53 AM PDT by Jed Eckert
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To: Jed Eckert

The environmentalists won’t have it. Just think of the dino farts and poop giving off all the methane. /s


2 posted on 09/18/2018 11:16:52 AM PDT by Calvin Locke
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To: Jed Eckert

Brains overcame brawn.


3 posted on 09/18/2018 11:18:51 AM PDT by BenLurkin (The above is not a statement of fact. It is either satire or opinion. Or both.)
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To: Jed Eckert

This has been my take for 15 years.


4 posted on 09/18/2018 11:24:34 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: Jed Eckert
If they ever do clone them best we can hope for...

Interesting. If cloned, based on the article, they'd need help to get around - each would need a taxpayer-provided walker, crutches... perhaps we'd need huge wheelchairs to move them around. The handicapped laws would be amended to accommodate them, with large ramps, and very large parking spots in front of all buildings and offices.

5 posted on 09/18/2018 11:27:17 AM PDT by C210N (Republicans sign check fronts; 'Rats sign check backs.)
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To: Jed Eckert

Hasn’t the author, Ted Holden been banned from FR multiple times?


6 posted on 09/18/2018 11:28:24 AM PDT by Moonman62 (Give a man a fish and he'll be a Democrat. Teach a man to fish and he'll be a responsible citizen.)
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To: Jed Eckert

As a child in school (1950s) we were taught brontosaurs lived in water because they could not walk on land due to their weight, and Tyranosaurs walked upright dragging their tails on the ground. It was settled science!

Wonder what “new” things they will decide about in the next fifty years.


7 posted on 09/18/2018 11:35:14 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Jed Eckert

Gravity is a problem for Michael Moore and Rosie O’Donnell too. But why aren’t they extinct???


8 posted on 09/18/2018 11:37:47 AM PDT by tired&retired (Blessings)
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To: Jed Eckert

It is instructive that the ancients worshiped Jupiter and Saturn as the two chieftain gods in all of the antique religious systems. If the present solar system was present in the distant past, one would expect primitive peoples to have worshiped the most visible of the astral bodies: the Sun, the Moon, and Venus. There is no conceivable reason they would worship as gods two planets which most people cannot even find in the night sky — unless, of course, these bodies occupied a far more prominent place in the heavens than they do today.

Or perhaps the alleged collision that caused the moon and added mass to the earth had not happened yet?

Thought that was the argument for the now-”debunked” young earth theory, though that would not agree with “settled science”.

(Now that we recently re-wrote all the History, Science and Astronomy books to include the Fraud and his anthropomorphic climate change dogma).


9 posted on 09/18/2018 11:41:00 AM PDT by treetopsandroofs
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To: Jed Eckert

I’ve thought about this in the past though the author obviously knows a lot more about dinosaurs than I do. I think the most likely explanation is that the gravity of the Earth was less in those days. Maybe the Earth simply had less mass but I suspect it’s more that the laws of physics themselves DO change despite the claim in the article. The physicists aren’t close to accepting that though.


10 posted on 09/18/2018 11:43:33 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Jed Eckert

For anybody who wants to cleanse their brain:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/phenomena/2013/02/25/dinosaur-reproduction-not-ancient-gravity-made-sauropods-super-sized/


11 posted on 09/18/2018 11:46:12 AM PDT by Moonman62 (Give a man a fish and he'll be a Democrat. Teach a man to fish and he'll be a responsible citizen.)
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To: Jed Eckert

OK... Interesting concept, but the ratio is wrong when they scale him up to 70,000 lbs. “x” in the numerator cannot be smaller than 70,000, since the comparison ratio is 1340 over 340. “x” = 275,882, not 47,558

Stopped reading there. Open to correction. ‘Splain it to me.


12 posted on 09/18/2018 11:59:39 AM PDT by HeadOn (Time to prosecute Hillary. Please. Pretty Please...)
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To: Jed Eckert

If it was a gravitational-constant change, the planets would have careened out of orbit or into the sun.

The primary reason stated is that the Earth had much more oxygen in the atmosphere then, allowing for larger sizes of animals, insects, and so on.


13 posted on 09/18/2018 12:02:33 PM PDT by Lazamataz (On future maps, ViI suggest we remove the word "California" and substitute "Open-Air Asylum".)
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To: Jed Eckert
An other problem:
A cloned Dino would immediately die as the Earth's oxygen level was far higher in the past: It would suffocate.

Also
Chapter 2. The Paradox of Large Dinosaurs and Flying Pterosaurs
Applying Science to Understanding Large Dinosaurs

14 posted on 09/18/2018 12:13:20 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: Jed Eckert

Oxygen levels were much higher 60 million years ago.

The average modern human would have been a fully doped Lance Armstrong if teleported back in time.

Cloned dinosaurs would gasp for air in our atmosphere.


15 posted on 09/18/2018 12:15:19 PM PDT by UNGN (I've been here since '98 but had nothing to say until now)
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To: Jed Eckert

People need to be careful with their arguments. Let the evolutionist be the sloppy ones often teaching badly outdated notions of evolution in public schools if only because its hard to keep up ... and also keeping up may not be important if, as is likely the deep motivation, evolution is used as a way to foster secularism and atheism through the schools.

Most dinosaurs weren’t huge.

But for the biggest there may be a way to explain why they grew so large: possibly poor quality food.

The normal views on ancient plant life from looking at the teeth was that it was frequently tough fare.

Now, there are tough to digest plants being eaten by herbivores all the time today, such as grass, and the way active creatures (not talking koalas who sleep off their meals a lot) to digest. Among the most efficient if fermentation which is likely method used by the biggest dinosaur herbivores.

Cattle for example use fermentation with their multisegmented stomach (4 chambers IIRC) that serves to efficiently digest but they have a number of additional tactics, like chewing their cud, that dinosaurs probably didn’t have.

But if relying strictly on fermentation there would be a real benefit from having a very big stomach or just lots and lots of intestines because fermentation is one of those processes that benefits from economies of scale, with a big stomach taking less energy for a given amount of food to extract the same energy.

So a big stomach translates into a big animal. The classical long necked giant would have also had to have moved less since they could swing their heads side to side sucking up whatever they came across.

With generally better quality plant food and sometimes better strategies to digest what is marginal, there simply is no advantage to growing so very big, never mind huge, and with big herbivores being smaller / less common there’s reduced opportunity for there to be big meat eaters.


16 posted on 09/18/2018 12:32:44 PM PDT by Rurudyne (Standup Philosopher)
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To: Jed Eckert
Another perhaps more believable theory is that during the Mesozoic, Earth had a slightly higher rotation rate which would lessen gravity slightly. More importantly the Earth's atmosphere was much thicker than today, giving more buoyancy to large animals. Slightly lower gravity, air 2/3rds that of water and very large animals become possible.

ρF = ρS (1 - 1/S.F.)
where ρF is the density of the fluid, ρs is the density of the substance submerged in the fluid such as the dinosaur, and S.F is the scaling factor. Inserting into this equation a scaling factor of 3.2 and an overall vertebrate density of 970 kg/m3, the Earth's atmospheric density during the late Jurassic period can be calculated to be 670 kg/m3. This says that to produce the necessary buoyancy so that the dinosaurs could grow to their exceptional size, the density of the Earth’s air near the Earth’s surface would need to be 2/3’s of the density of water. (ref: https://dinosaurtheory.com/solution.html)

17 posted on 09/18/2018 12:46:04 PM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: Jed Eckert

I wish democrats would go the way of the dinosaurs.


18 posted on 09/18/2018 12:52:32 PM PDT by Joe Bfstplk (How unfortunate tarring and feathering was abandoned.)
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To: Jed Eckert

An interesting premise but...why are modern horses so much bigger than their forebears like Eohippus...which was two feet tall?


19 posted on 09/18/2018 12:55:08 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (Get in the Spirit! The Spirit of '76!)
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To: Jed Eckert

I think we covered this before.

There’s not as much oxygen in the atmosphere as there used to be.


20 posted on 09/18/2018 12:57:28 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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