[dfwgator]

Stalin, although Georgian, went against the diktats of the original Bolsheviks, and set on a course of “Russification” of the Soviet Union, requiring everyone to speak Russian first, and forcing entire ethnic groups off of lands they had lived in for centuries, to move ethnic Russians in their place.

[Telepathic Intruder]

That’s especially true in Ukraine, where he wiped out most indigenous Ukrainians and replaced them with ethnic Russians. It’s also the cause of so much unrest there today, because the ethnic Russians are more closely tied to Russia than to Ukraine.

[Cronos]

Telepathic Intruder -

• the nutzis were not "white supremacists" --
  • they slaughtered Jews, Poles and Russians - all "white" people - arguably poles are more blue-eyed and blonde than Germans
  • They allied with Hungarians and Finns (of partly Asiatic origin through the Finno-Ugric tribes) and with the Japanese
  • They considered the "Aryan" race great, forgeting that Aryans were originally Indo-Iranis, not Germanics. Also the gysies were aryans yet were slaughtered worse than Jews
  
  
  
• Correct about the publicity - but you also forget that the US, UK etc. allied with the commies, so talking about your allies atrocities are a strict no, no. Read Hellstorm - the end of
  
  
• Correct
• Correct again, the argument going that 'communism has never been actually tried'
  
• Oh yes, so correct about the libs agreement with the omlet

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Dfw - we are lucky that Stalin went against Lenin and Trotsky - they wanted perpetual revolution, to carry communism into Europe and the Americas. They wanted to keep fighting continuously. Stalin wanted his own fiefdom so came up with communism in one country. If Trotsky won, then WWII would have started in 1920 with the defeat of the Poles (arguably one of the big reasons the Poles won was that Stalin was playing political games and kept a force in the south instead of sending them north to aid Tukachevsky).

If Trotsky had won, there is a strong likelihood he would have won the Polish-Soviet war, and then the German and French and English trade unions would have risen -- these trade unions already stopped aid to Poland under the slogan "hands off Russia" - they would have risen with Soviet help and we would have a communist Europe in 1930, including England.

Also, DFW, Stalin's Russification was already started in the late 1800s - after the German reunification, there was a strong process of Russification -- Marie Curie-skłodowska was forced to study only in Russian and speaking Polish in her class in the 1880s was forbidden, not even during the break times.

Teh difference is that under the Tsars it was haphazard, chaotic, while the Bolshies brought scientific methods to their process.

Telepathic - "That’s especially true in Ukraine, where he wiped out most indigenous Ukrainians and replaced them with ethnic Russians. It’s also the cause of so much unrest there today, because the ethnic Russians are more closely tied to Russia than to Ukraine." -- that's not completely true, there are few to no "indigenous Ukrainians who are distinct from the other Eastslavs: Russkies and Belarussians"

Ukraine's or rather the Ruthenians existence as a separate/distinct East Slavic nation, distinct from Russia is sketchy at the least. They along with the Belarussians and Russians are East Slavs, very similar culturally, religiously and linguistically. The similarity is between the German nations of Hesse and Baden. The Uks, Bes and Muscowites are all Orthodox (that’s how they define themselves), their langauges are mutually comprehensible and culturally they are similar with the exception that Muscowite culture developed into high culture while Ukrainiana nd Belarussian remained local, village or folk cultures (as they were ruled by stronger cultures either Polish or Muscowite)

you need to realize that Ukraine and Russia are so closely intertwined as nations due to history and blood it is difficult to separate it out. They both originate in Kievan Rus, but then the Muscowites took on the role of the Mongol Khans (I can elaborate if you want), while Ukraine became part of the Polish commonwealth and then was depopulated for a long, long time due to Tatar raids (”harvesting of the steppe”) - so the people in the Ukraine today are mostly descendants of other East Slavic people from what is now Russia, Belarus etc. admixed with Turks, Tatars, Georgians, Mordvins etc. Ukraine has only had a chance to develop its separate identity since 1990 and that was too late.

Until the Tsar's pacified the Tatars in the early 1800s, the area of the Ukraine was depopulated or populated by people escaping theheavy hand fo the Tsars or from Polish/Ruthenian lords. The Tatars kept the land depopulated with their slaving raids

By the 1930s there were people speaking different variants of East Slavic in what is now Ukraine, but you couldn't (and still can't) put a hard linguistic border

A friend of mine who is a super-linguist and speaks English, Standard German, Hessian, Bawarian, Swabian, Polish, Russian and Ukrainian pretty well (her English and Polish are flawless and standard german is her native tongue along with Schweizerdeutsch) told me that there are more differences between different "German dialects" like hessian/bawarian/Standard German than between Ukrainian and Russian or between Czech and Slovak

That goes hand in hand with the saying that

What's the difference between a language and a dialect?

A language is a dialect with an army