Taking A Dip In The Jury Pool

Personal Experience | 3/14/2017 | blueunicorn6

[Hardastarboard]

Who wants their fate decided by 12 people who weren’t smart enough to get out of jury duty?

[Hebrews 11:6]

Thanks for your interesting reply. From your description it’s hard to fathom why that judge rejected generally-permitted questioning out-of-hand without at least listening first to the question, after which she still retained her right to reject it. Smacks of judicial arrogance.

[day10]

Way back in the day I got called for Petit Jury duty and actually served on 2 trials. Nothing major, just minor crimes that went to trial for whatever reason.

True story: one of the trials I was on was so bad that I hung the jury (the person got a retrial) so I could just get away from the jury foreman.

The individual on trial was driving while impaired, in possession of illegal drugs, and caused some property damage when she crashed. Why this even went to trial I don’t know. God as my witness, during closing argument, her defense attorney said “we don’t deny anything that has been said in this trial, we just ask for mercy for my client”.

So we go back to the jury room and one guy steps up and says he wants to be the foreman. Everybody says OK fine as we figure we’ll be there an hour tops. Oh no, this guy sits everyone down and pulls a copy of the Constitution out of his shirt pocket and starts reading. He says how do we know the cops didn’t plant the stuff? How do we know the cops aren’t lying? I say, “would it be the part where her attorney says they don’t deny any of this?”

8 HOURS LATER, after going back into the courtroom TWICE to have testimony read back, I knock on the door and ask the bailiff how I can get the hell out of here because the foreman is a lunatic. He says you can say the jury is hung, so I did.

I came away with a different take: I determined that I NEVER want to be on trial because the phrase “jury of your peers” is a myth. :-)

[Oatka]

The other one (Federal, civil appeals court… I was foreman): Man buys $20K life insurance policy and is in a fatal car crash (not his fault) 3 weeks later. The timing of the accident triggers a deep review by insurance company who claims he lied on his application.

Some years back, a guy bought temp life insurance for a flight he was taking. Plane crashed, guy dies. His widow was hauled into court, either by the IRS or the insurance company, saying the guy took out the insurance knowing he would die, so either tax would be withheld, or the policy not paid.

The judge threw the case out, saying that if the guy knew the plane would crash, he wouldn't have taken he flight.

[sidebar] I was selected for jury duty in Las Vegas, and the DA came in and addressed us, thanking us for showing up. He said that many cases, where the accused is flat-out guilty, are quickly settled when he sees the jury lining up and just pleads guilty.

There were over 60 of us and I was not selected. They said that those who wanted out to see the clerk. The guy ahead of me said that he had already lost a days pay and couldn't afford another loss. He got off. I told the clerk I lived 90 miles away. He wondered why they called me in the first place and let me off. Waaay past the age cutoff now, so no longer have to worry about that any more.

[Hebrews 11:6]

Perhaps you can clear up something for me, since I finished school ‘way back in the ‘60s. My observation then was that the class clown was so busy finding ways to be amusing that he seldom absorbed the benefit of the day’s lesson. Have you also noticed that?

[blueunicorn6]

I was actually quite impressed with the Judge and the attorneys and the court personnel.

I think that our judicial system is pretty good.

I’m scared to death of my fellow citizens, though.

In my State, they use a list of people with a drivers license to select potential jurors from. I’m used to getting honked at and flipped off. That’s when I see my Mom. Other drivers do it to me, too. What I worry about is these Virtue Signalers. They REALLY want everyone to understand how good they are.

I’m afraid that I’ll run a yellow light and some Virtue Signaler will chase me down and tell me how they passed the drivers exam with a perfect score and they’ve never had a ticket or an accident and that they should be a traffic cop and then I’ll have to run them over and then I’LL be sitting in a court as they pick a jury for my trial.

My advice to my lawyer will be, “Ask them if there’s any dirty liars in the group and excuse those who don’t raise their hands.”

Maybe I just ran into a bad lot.

[Cementjungle]

Some years back, a guy bought temp life insurance for a flight he was taking. Plane crashed, guy dies. His widow was hauled into court, either by the IRS or the insurance company, saying the guy took out the insurance knowing he would die, so either tax would be withheld, or the policy not paid.

The judge threw the case out, saying that if the guy knew the plane would crash, he wouldn't have taken he flight.

Interesting... what if the guy had just been diagnosed with some terminal disease and he wanted to leave his family in good shape financially? Buy a policy and somehow make the plane crash.

[discostu]

I went to jury duty 3 times. Never even got in the court room, total waste of time, started throwing out the cards. I’d actually LIKE to serve on a jury, but I don’t want to sit in an over lit room with over load TVs for half a day and get nowhere near being a juror. Maybe after I retire and my time exists only to be wasted.

[snarkpup]

“we don’t deny anything that has been said in this trial, we just ask for mercy for my client”

The last time I was called to jury duty, it was a murder trial. The defendant's public defender admitted the guy was a scumbag (or words to that effect) and guilty. He asked that the jury aquit if they were only 99.99% sure. The jury ended up convicting him on a lesser charge.

[Responsibility2nd]

When I returned with my appropriate attire, they had me sign in and go and sit in an oven. It was roasting in the jury room. All 70 or 80 of us potential jurors were jammed into a room not much larger than a dorm room.

__________________________________________

Here in San Antonio, our jury room - even in summer - is cold enough to hang meat in. You’d best wear long sleeves; maybe even a light coat.

[Responsibility2nd]

No.....just kidding. Though I do think that every American should pull Al Franken's shorts over his head.

 

Al doesn't wear shorts. He wears these.

 

And one better leave them alone. They could be loaded.

[Oldexpat]

The last time I served in CA, they didn’t even ask for our ID.

[blueunicorn6]

No.

Oh, you’re teaching me a lesson.

You’re trying to use the Socratic Method to teach me by asking me questions.

If you want to come over, I’ll show you the peripatetic method where I teach you by walking around while I ask you questions.

There is not just one way to teach.

Humor can sometimes unlock the mind.

We have had an examination of the jury selection process. It caused people to think and in some instances to laugh.

An examination of this process is a good thing, not a bad thing.

And if you can’t take a joke, well, take a break.

[Veto!]

Point taken. I was on a jury for a drunk driving case in Michigan. I am not a drinker and have little sympathy for drunks, but the state failed to make the case, imo, so voted to acquit. Talking to lawyers later, they were amazed that I, that sweet little housewife, was the holdout; I was never called again.

Wonder why.

[jim_trent]

I have been called for jury duty twice. Here, they send you a paper form to fill out before reporting. One of the questions is “what are you employed at”. I answered truthfully. I am (or was, I am retired now) a structural engineer. I was never asked to report for selection. I strongly feel that they don’t want engineers on jury duty.

[sphinx]

We submitted our questions to the judge. I don't remember them all, but they were rather straightforward. Two men were in a car when stopped by a police officer. Only one man appeared in court, and he disputed the officer's account. Where was the other one and why didn't he testify? A gun was discovered. Whose gun was it? Was it stolen? Was it linked ballistically to any crime? The whole thing started as a routine traffic stop on the two men, who were from out of town and had turned the wrong way on a one way street in the wee hours of the morning. That's a mistake anyone can make at 4:00 a.m. when there is no traffic around, but what were they doing in DC driving around at 4:00 a.m. in the first place (they were from New York, and therefore not to be trusted), and whose car was it anyhow? That sort of thing. We all thought there was something else in play, and we were not being told what it was.

Underlying all this was the jury's mystification that such a case -- a routine traffic stop compounded by the discovery of a gun in the car -- was coming before a jury to begin with. The only thing I could think of is that DC's draconian gun control law was driving the manipulation. At the time, getting caught with a gun would lead to being drawn and quartered, disembowled, burned and beheaded, and everyone, including the prosecution, may have been angling for a lesser penalty. But then, why was the charge brought to begin with?

The defense attorney's closing argument ended with, "Deciding a case is like putting together a puzzle. To vote for conviction, you have to have all the pieces. And in this case, you don't have all the pieces." I'm sure I'm not the only juror who was thinking, "You %$?!**!+@)/, or words to that effect. We knew we didn't have all the pieces. We had asked the judge some very simple questions simply to assemble a reasonable picture of the case, and we had been stiffed. It was obvious that this was a rigged, keep-the-jury-in-the-dark mock trial. The entire jury was aggravated.

[Responsibility2nd]

I used to live in a suburb. I got called to jury duty in that small municipal court.

Turned out some moron wants a trial by jury to contest his freaking speeding ticket. We in the jury pool had to sit around in folding chairs in the hot stuffy bay of the local fire station for a couple of hours. Man were we mad!

I didn’t get selected. I trust those that did found the fool guilty as hell.

[Hebrews 11:6]

I, too, was once on a jury where we KNEW the defendant was guilty but the prosecutor (in this case, the feds--the charge was passport fraud) failed to make the case. We all agreed, unlike you as the lone holdout, and actually returned an acquittal--it was that prosecutor's first loss ever, and he sat there stunned.

On the courthouse steps afterward I was discussing the prosection's shortcomings with the State Dept. agent who sat next to the prosecutor--he agreed wholeheartedly with the necessity for our verdict--when out walked the defendant. He was joking around with the agent when I lit into him, telling him heatedly how guilty we knew he was and that only our respect for the law, something he did not possess, had kept him out of prison. I never saw such a shocked look on anyone's face as his during my diatribe. The agent thought it was hilarious and richly deserved.

[snarkpup]

The last time I served in CA, they didn’t even ask for our ID.

Yep, the incident I described, with the guy who couldn't speak English, was when I lived in CA.

[Hebrews 11:6]

I have often shared your keen frustration at wondering about gaps in the evidence, testimony, explanations, and motivations. Lately it seems there is some movement to permit jurors' questions, but it's still very limited. A lot of the mystery is due simply, I think, to attorneys' (including judges') incompetence at failing to anticipate jurors' legitimate needs--not to mention, as you imply, hidden nefarious motives.

Generally, attorneys and judges are exempt, I believe, from jury service themselves and so have missed the experience personally of wondering as you and I have. The main safeguard on which they rely is the adversarial system, which they trust will surface everything actually necessary--but, of course, we've found that to be often insufficient.