Posted on 12/21/2016 5:23:10 PM PST by brucedickinson
Their religion is liberalism, which is based on lies and fantasies, yet they preach “facts” to others. These pinheads are why Scientology was able to thrive.
But left out of this “scholarly” work is certain questions, such as:
1. How extensive was the Roman archival and documentation system? They were not like the Nazi's—Germans—who documented every single thing.
2. When the Romans conquered Judea and burnt Jerusalem to the ground, how many records were lost? How many witnesses died? I'll assume they went after religious leaders, so therefore the Chief Priest, his administrators and the Sanhedrin were probably wiped out to a man.
3. How many Roman records concerning things in the 1st Century tiny protectorate of Judea even survived until this day?
4. Moreover, there were Christians in Rome and other large cities even then. Archaeologists have found Christian crosses and fish symbols carved into the walls of the Catacombs of Rome, where prosecuted Christians fled to worship in secret. The creation time these carvings is uncertain, but some say they are indeed first century.
Out of morbid curiosity, what verse is that?
I would think the romans would know if there was a Jesus, that is the point
It is. The earliest versions of the Gospels found are remarkable for their conformity to the Greek versions we have today. Only minor variations have been noted, mostly in word order or spelling. Most of these earliest versions are from the 2nd and 3rd Century.
They might, and they might not. Think about what you are saying. Three hundred years after the Crucifixion is a LONG time in an era when messages were sent on wax tablets and permanent records had to be carved in stone. . . other less important records could be written down on vellum or a papyrus like paper, but the likelyhood of it surviving for any length of time was not good. Any record worth keeping for posterity had to be pretty damn important for the effort to be made. It required lots of man hours to make copies of any record.
Now consider the time span. . . three hundred years. That is similar to trying today to try find the written evidence of an itinerant preacher who wandered around in 1716 in Colonial America's most out-of-the-way settlements whose preaching resulted in the creation of a cult, and who may have come to a bad end in a clash with authorities. Yet WE have written records and a population that was a lot more literate in general, who wrote letters and kept diaries, and even those records are spread far and wide or lost to history. Almost everything that is known about this preacher is only known about the from the teachings of the writings of his followers and what the seventh through ninth generation of them say happened which has been passed down to them in those writings and oral tradition.
In many ways, Constantine made a political decision to center his Empire on Christianity rather that a factual, reason based decision.
Do I think that Jeshua bar Josef called the Christ existed? Absolutely. Do I believe that He was Who He said He was? Also absolutely. If He was not, His church would not have spread, nor would it have grown to be the world encompassing entity that it has become. The original Witnesses were CHANGED by what they experienced from simple men to amazing MEN who changed the world. That was perhaps Jesus' greatest miracle of all. . . to take twelve simple men, and later a larger group, and instill a fire in them, and to send them out into the world and change it in a very short time so that in just 300 years, this "Itenerant preacher" in a remote backwater of the Empire essentially conquered it, and then went on from there to the whole world. That alone is testimony as to WHO HE IS.
When Jesus gave the Temple Discourse during the day of which the Olivet Discourse (Luke’s Gospel account) was given that evening (Matthew 24) He gave prophecy which was so specific that many escaped the Tacitus / Vespasian razing of Jerusalem.
ok, then there was no Jesus, next...
You did not READ what I posted, dila813.
I said there WAS a person who we know as "Jesus." However his name was not "Jesus." It was best rendered as "Jeshua" or "Joshua" and he would have been known as Jeshua bar Josef to the people around him. That means Jeshua, son of Josef, or in an English translation, Jesus, son of Joseph.
Next time read the entire reply before assuming you under stood what I said.
Honestly, if you send me a book on the forums I am not going to read it.
I am only going to read at most a paragraph or two.
No one else is either.
These are issues that cannot be explained in two paragraphs. I though we were having a serious discussion. Obviously you don't have a serious enough attention span for such discussions. I do.
People who think in Tweet sized bites and only read headlines are why we wound up with eight years of Obama.
If the reply is a post that I am smarter than you and let me list the ways I am better, I just tune out.
If it was worth it, I would keep reading
Like I said, you lost me after the second paragraph.
It has NOTHING to do with anyone being "smarter" than you, but perhaps someone being far more well read and therefore informed than you on this subject. I have been studying this topic for five decades and am very well informed on it. I have taught classes on the subject. I am also the keeper of the Shroud of Turin Ping List on FreeRepublic for over ten years and the members of that list will inform you that I am an expert in the scholarship in this area. Be happy in your ignorance and your choice not to expand your knowledge that might help you in discussions with the atheists. . . And avoid jumping to rude, ill considered conclusions as you did with me.
Your article is seriously inaccurate. The truth is, there are fewer and fewer scholars who doubt Jesus’ existence.
Even Bart Ehrman, whom you inaccurately cite, has written a book, “Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth”
You need to correct your article, you owe freepers the truth, not sensationalist inaccuracies.
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