Posted on 07/09/2016 4:17:18 PM PDT by fella
Are you trolling of something? Yes, the captain is in command, but how many captains do you think would be left if every captain was prosecuted for a mistake below them? This looks to be a mistake (per another poster; wrong dialing in of the arresting cable) or just a bad cable. So, if one of the props goes bad (which has happened) the captain should be thrown out of service or in the brig? Lighten up Francis..
The problem with going into AB on touchdown is that you can damage the arresting gear. In some aircraft, like the Hornet, the afterburner range on the throttle is just a “friction stop” that you push through. Quite a few guys will end up with a flicker of AB in the wires. The Tomcat throttles required moving the throttles outboard and then forward though the AB range. Never flew in an F-4 so I don’t know what it’s throttles were set up like.
Bandit,
Thanks for the info. I’ve been interested in Navy aviation and flying in general since I was a kid. Being at NAS Oceana for a couple of years and then, later, aboard the Coral Sea for four years and two deployments to Viet Nam only increased my desire to participate. Unfortunately, the best I could do was a Private License, ASEL, later in life.
Witnessing round the clock operations on Yankee Station was the biggest hi-lite of being aboard Coral Sea. Even though I was ships company, I was very proud to wear the Coral Sea patch because of the great record of high performance, accomplishments and sacrifices made by the pilots in the air group
Regards.
Thanks for helping to clarify. I misspoke to a degree about the approach. Refinement is always welcomed.
It has done been investigated, a report made, and actions taken. It was several factors none of which were the Captains doing. In my time on a carrier we lost planes and one involved an arresting cable. We were never told what happened. Possibly the pilot snagged the wrong one that wasn't set. It was a S-3 Viking and it went off the angle and hung there. Some say the crew had initiated Jettison as it went over unaware they were still on the wire which is why one shot across the surface of the water and the other into the hull of the ship. Both shipmates died. Another shipmate died by being ran over by a F-14 during a routine re-spot. Each deployment we lost crewmembers to either crashes or accidents. We had competent Old School Captains who had enlisted either during Korea or early Nam.
Carrier landings are controlled crashes. It operates in the top limits of man and machines abilities and sometimes beyond them all. There is no way to have a death free or injury free carrier and it function as a carrier. You do all you can to limit possibilities but all are human.
Reading the article it was an honest screw up. If you've ever read a Navy Tech manual or pulled a PMS card for a piece of equipment sometimes the information isn't accurate or difficult to understand. The machine they were servicing is actually a huge hydraulic Ram with IIRC a couple dozen loops of cable on pulleys. This is where schooling helps instead of OJT where you learn by simply experience or the experience of others word of mouth and hope they are right. IOW trying to do it by a tech manual or PMS card.
Budgets have been cut and with that comes school and training cuts as well as manpower cuts and maintenance cuts. I saw this happen under Carter when I was in. A sailor would request a tech school and it be approved all the way up to the Captain and then COMNAVBEANCOUNTER wherever in the Pentagon would cancel the school or not process the persons orders.
No one wants to kill a shipmate. I wasn't in Air Department I was in Engineering meaning propulsion and ships support systems. I works on the carriers air conditioning and refrigeration systems. I also had several secondary jobs such as an engineman on boat crew for the boats used to transport sailors from ship to shore and back for Liberty call. I about got killed several times just on the boat crew and those were accidents. The miracle is more don't die or get seriously hurt. The USS COLE attack was the last major mass causality for a Navy ship and before that IIRC you'd have to look at the three carrier fires in the late 60's all within a few months of each other.
The investigations are to find cause first. Finding cause tells you if it was a human error or a mechanical failure. They have to know so it can be corrected fast as lives depend on it. Hanging every sailor who makes an honest unintentional mistake defeats that purpose and makes such an investigation impossible. If however they discover it was sabotage {it happens} then they will hold a court martial & pack your trash for Kansas.
One carrier is named after a man who as a junior commissioned officer {Ensign} grounded a ship. He was court martialed according to some sources & afterward had to redeem himself. He went on to become Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz WW2 admiral in charge of the Pacific Fleet after Pearl Harbor.
BTW my ship darn near grounded off the coast of Dubrovnik, Yugoslavia on our 77-78 MED Cruise. A storm often referred to as a Alpine Express caught the ship by surprise and we drug anchor. Both anchors. We got out of it thankfully and on our crossing back to the U.S. saw our Captain get his Admiral Star pinned own he damn well had earned. He could have rightfully retired after Nam when he was released from the Hanoi Hilton as one of the longest held but he stayed service in instead.
Hell of a recovery.
Hell of a pilot
And in addition. and after reading your heart felt post-— Thank you for your service for our country , Sir. These cables have tremendous cable strength. To break one requires a huge miss exceeding the specs. A court of inquiry will be called, but I see human error. I speculate the carrier was lined up wrong in the wind . Instead of repositioning, the Captain permitted a “hot” landing ( tail wind ). you NEVER DO THAT!! Those jets have a 10, 20, 30 degree flap capability to slow the craft but with a tail wind ,that is no good. Ill bet the landind speed of that Jet was 20% out of max. — Why?
I speculate the Captain violated the rules. I rest my case.
I don't believe you even read the article. They found the cause. It had nothing to do with the issues you mention and was corrected. Now IF it was as you say there would have had to have been a massive coverup. The Air Boss would be raising bloody cane. The LSO would be raising cane. The flight deck crew as well. NOT TO MENTION IT IS ALL FILMED AND BROADCASTED TO THE CREW REAL TIME.
BTW if cables are checked each landing. A guy from V-2 I think runs across the FD checking the cable between landings.
This makes about as much since as John McCain caused a carrier fire. Even with filmed evidence and plane spotted in a position making it impossible the post show up on here all the time and No I do not like McCain.
When something breaks, tears up, fails, one of the first things any trouble shooter looks at is what changed? What caused the change? What if anything happened between the time something was working and failed? In this case they had Log Books and Logs to go by. To do most maintenance jobs on a mechanical or electrical piece of machinery on a ship it requires a Red Tag placing that equipment out of commission so it isn’t operated while being worked on. Often the paperwork obtaining, placing, and then removing the tag takes longer than the task itself.
Well you are probably right. You have great knowledge. Thanks for serving. Still make no sense to me. That cable exceeded test limits by thousands of pounds
No problem. You will hear people say it is a controlled crash, and it kind of is. When they are coming in they are just goosing the throttle here and there adjusting a little this way and that as the plane sinks towards the flight deck.
When the pilots came in after night landing and took off their helmets, their hair was often matted down with perspiration and the armpits, back, and crotch of their flights suits were dark with perspiration.
I always assumed if their crotches were dark, it was perspiration, but I guess one could never tell!
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