Posted on 06/16/2016 6:27:44 AM PDT by iowamark
The people sent to the gulags had hearings too. The devil is in the details. Look for the presumption, is a person on the list presumed dangerous, or presumed not dangerous? Look for the burden of proof, and the standard of proof. The burden is on the person on the list, to object. There is ZERO due process (to the accused danger) associated with getting on the list, other than something that will resemble reasonable suspicious - a lesser hurdle than probable cause.
In this hearing, if the presumption is that the person is a danger, the burden shifts to the accused to prove they are not a danger.
-- I thought if you're a convicted felon, you can't own a gun. --
And if you're deported you aren't supposed to be in the country. There are MANY shootings perpetrated by felons prohibited from possession.
I don't fault Trump for getting political with this, if he wants to win, he has to get votes from masses of idiots, as well as from thoughtful patriots. And I think Trump represents the least danger to the RKBA, with the least danger still being an extreme danger.
Seriously! And you trust the government to put the right people on those lists? What makes you think the Obama (or Clinton) admin would put muslims on the list. Their admins are more likely to put individuals and people who are members of conservative groups identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center on the list than people who should be on the list. Look at the actions of Lois Lerner and recent statements by Jeh Johnson about American patriots being as much if not more of a threat that radical muslims and you have perfect examples of how the government can/will target people it deems its political enemies. I for one don’t trust them.
How about hiring Lois Learner to manage these lists? What could go wrong?
On the other hand, this may be an opportunity to force the federal government to institute due process protections for people on the list.
Personally, I think any US citizen on the list should either be arrested and charged, or removed from the list.
Any non-US citizen that is on the list should be immediately deported.
LOL, ok, fine, you roll with that.
Maybe it is just me, but I thought that if there were someone on the no-fly list, the name would automatically go into the FBI computer and would show up on an application to purchase a gun and show up as a block.
I am sure language could be created that would keep someone off the list for merely posting on this site, for example.
But, evidently, this safeguard would not have stopped the Orlando killer. I fail to see how Bill O’Reilly, for example, can not understand that. He is supposed to be intelligent, at least he considers himself to be. The Orlando killer was vouched for by the FBI.
“How about hiring Lois Learner to manage these lists? What could go wrong?”
That’s exactly the worry of those who oppose it. Experience has taught them that you cannot trust those who will have the ability to enforce it.
With Lois Lerner out walking free instead of in jail they have a glittering example to point to.
Makes perfect sense to me. The NRA has the right position on this matter.
The elephant in the room however, is the politicians, and the media pretending that the scum that murdered 49 people was ON the terrorist watch list and able to buy a gun of any kind. The real question is, why the hell was he not on the terrorist watch list, much less the no-fly list? Two trips to Saudi by air, so he was not on the no fly list.
Truth is, Obama’s cuddle a Muslim policy is no doubt why this guy was off the radar.
I.e. no due process.
Oh my how the media twits like to insert different words to make people look like idiots...
BREAKING NEWS!!! The American People have just learned that the Administration of the Hussein Obama has just paid off their homes, cars and put into their accounts enough money to live on for the rest of their lives.
They no longer have to work for editors or other people, they only answer to Hussein Obama and his administration, if by chance they decide they would not like this arrangement, they will immediately be taken to a site and shot.
More later on the local news channels.
Yes, in a nutshell.
DON’T TAKE THE BAIT. Back away slowly.
The language in the law is irrelevant until it is given meaning by a court. The government can play a slightly different version of "you can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."
Nothing stops the government from doing the wrong thing - you can get the ride "just because," and the courts will chalk it up to an abuse, but there is no penalty to the abuser, and no remedy to the abused.
Most likely he was meeting with them to determine what their opposition to it was and how he could gain their support.
Question:
If this new proposal becomes law.....WHO gets to decide which people go on the “No-fly, No-gun” list?
Whoever makes the decision can simply put all residents of the USA on the list.
They can take their new proposal and shove it way up where the Sun does not shine.
I’m not worried about chief Sly-Like-A-Fox
I'm there now with the GOP too. Right now the GOP is just a decoy to trick me into voting for stealth democrats. I'm done. It would have to be an exceptional person that would motivate me to ever pull the lever again for these lying snakes who take their orders from the dems.
That said, I will pull the lever for Trump because I truly believe he's not part of their lying, backstabbing clique of dishonorable thieves who have utter contempt for me and my values. If they manage to push him out, that party is dead to me. I'll go libertarian or write-ins in all future elections.
You are displaying incredible ignorance on just what this no fly list is and how it works. It is a secret list, *anyone* can be put on it for *any* reason by thousands of bureaucrats in Washington.
Your neighbor doesn’t like your dog, he calls the right people and you are prohibited from flying. Is that how you want your other rights treated?
Your position is embarrassingly indefensible.
Anyone who is not a US citizen who makes it to one of these lists should immediately be rounded up and deported.
“Nothing stops the government from doing the wrong thing”
Davy Crockett, in his autobiography, written about 1835, complained how people refer to the “government” as if it is a separate, sentient being who no one is responsible for.
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