Baby boomers are what’s wrong with America’s economy

Washington Post ^ | 11/05/2015 | Jim Tankersley

[Pelham]

Yep. I remember reading a Register article about a Chinese girl who was valedictorian over at UC Irvine. A puff piece on how well she had done. And towards the end it had some quotes from her that were pure vitriol against the American people. Ingratitude in a distilled form. Maybe the first time that I ran across one of our “model” immigrants expressing contempt for us but definitely not the last.

[CodeToad]

“And there are plenty of those in all generations. In fact, a good case can be made that there are more in generations following the boomers.”

Very true. Liberals, in both the R & D category caused this. Seems a “free” money program is always approved by both sides.

[Pelham]

” the issue is that it wasn’t invested properly- and had it been, we would be fine today-”

But what would you have them do with it that they aren’t doing? They really can’t be buying stocks with it, we don’t want the government directly financing and owning corporations. They could buy bonds but that also amounts to picking what corporations to finance. There’s enough crony capitalism going on without adding the huge SS sums to the mix.

If they aren’t going to try to equalize the income and outflow of funds then they are pretty much limited to loaning excess funds to other gov’t agencies, otherwise we would have them picking and choosing companies to fund in the private sector. I just don’t see what other option you have in mind.

[Bob434]

Flaglady was right- The massive 2.7 or so trillion surplus should have been invested properly, and grown the way that the tax increase plan had designed it to cover the baby boomers that they knew were looming in the shadows waiting to retire- but that’s not what happened- the money was ‘borrowed’ by the government and used to cover costs accrued by the programs In the general fund and federal budget -

The government swears up and down they didn’t do anything wrong- and bristles at the word ‘stole’ but basically that is hat happened- Flag lady correctly points out that the government’s ‘borrowing’ has cost us in interest- interest we could have had had the money been used the way it was intended to

IF someone on your street offered to hold a chunk of your paycheck each week in a ‘lock-box/trust fund’ (again, lock box does not imply nothing can be done with the money), and they told you the m oney would always be available even if invested because they could sell those investments right away when needed, but they instead took and ‘borrowed’ your money, emptied the trust fund, paid off THEIR debts, then turned around and borrowed money to pay you when you ask for it AND charged you the interest they will have to pay o n the borrowed money, I don’t think that would be considered very ethical or right- and I think you’d agree that they mismanaged your money and cost you money, no?

Crude analogy I know, but it sort of represents what happened

[Pelham]

But invested how? And in what? Do you mean in the stock market? Bond market?

The retirement accounts of government agencies routinely loan money to the rest of the government at interest. Apparently SS has been doing the same since it started.

“AND charged you the interest they will have to pay on the borrowed money,”

I don’t see how that part of your analogy holds up. How are you being charged interest by the SS Administration? When SS has excess funds they loan it out at interest. I don’t see where a mechanism even exists where you could be charged interest if they wanted to do it.

[Bob434]

[[They really can’t be buying stocks with it, we don’t want the government directly financing and owning corporations.]]

Funding big government with it so they can pay off their ridiculous debts certainly isn’t the answer-

[[They really can’t be buying stocks with it, we don’t want the government directly financing and owning corporations.]]

Not sure about that- it helps the businesses, which in turn helps the consumers, which in turn also helps the SS trust fund- Right now though SS money may infact be going to pay special interest group grants, study grants etc- either directly or indirectly- the money is certainly going somewhere in government- and we’re not seeing a very good return on our money- that’s for sure- Had we gotten a good return- then we wouldn’t be I n this problem today- and I don’t think people would be upset about the government ‘borrowing’ it since it was actually increasing SS in the end-

However, when big business gets breaks, or help, it does trickle down to everyone both directly and indirectly- Sure, they get breaks- but their breaks help to keep prices low, worker’s wages higher, etc-

[Bob434]

[[How are you being charged interest by the SS Administration?]]

The money to pay off the loan interest has to come from somewhere- countries aren’t loaning us the money free of interest that I know of? I had a national review online link describing the investing that was supposed to happen and why it was a good idea- but can’t find it now- I’ll see if I can find it again- It’s more than I can comment on-

[[Apparently SS has been doing the same since it started.]]

That isn’t how it was supposed to be designed- it was supposed to go into investments, not into bonds which make it immediately available for the government to ‘borrow’ from

[mrsmith]

The straightforward, no-nonsense thing to do with the SS surplus was to use it to pay down the debt so the government could cheaply borrow money to pay off the treasury bonds held by the SS fund when needed- instead of either raising taxes or cutting benefits.

But, of course, the government used it to create new spending programs. The worse thing that could be done with it.

[Pelham]

I think you’re taking too rosy a view of how that would work out. Does Solyndra ring a bell? California’s bullet train?

Big business would be just as likely, maybe more likely, to take that money and invest it in plant and equipment outside the country. Or build windmill farms or electric car plants or whatever nonsense is currently politically fashionable. There’s no reason to think that they would get a return on that money but I’m certain that plenty would get siphoned off into someone’s pocket. Senators and Presidents don’t get rich from hard work.

[Pelham]

“The money to pay off the loan interest has to come from somewhere- countries aren’t loaning us the money free of interest that I know of”

Well in this case the loan interest is being paid to the SS Administration because they have been loaning excess funds out. They aren’t doing any borrowing that I am aware of.

[Bob434]

[[Big business would be just as likely, maybe more likely, to take that money and invest it in plant and equipment outside the country.]]

not if there were restrictions on the businesses the money gets invested in

[[Or build windmill farms or electric car plants or whatever nonsense is currently politically fashionable. ]]

there is the potential for that but there must be something that can be done to ensure the money goes to known money makers, not risky start up new technology companies

Again- this isn’t my forte so I’m going to have to see if I can find that article-

[[but I’m certain that plenty would get siphoned off into someone’s pocket.]]

There is a risk of that- and I’m sure there’s risks all around- however there are accountability groups, and groups to hold accountability groups honest- etc- Again- lemme try to find that tonight-

[Bob434]

[[Well in this case the loan interest is being paid to the SS Administration because they have been loaning excess funds out.]]

I’m not sure the money does come with interest charges when ‘borrowed’ from SS- I could be wrong though- but even if it is, it’s still not what can be gained with direct investments- and there’s the issue of the government having to pay back the loans from other countries, and again them money comes from somewhere- it’s always a game of robbing peter to pay paul

[[They aren’t doing any borrowing that I am aware of.]]

I believe the govnemernt has to borrow from other countries to pay back what they ‘borrow’ from SS

[Pelham]

“I’m not sure the money does come with interest charges when ‘borrowed’ from SS’”

SSA gets interest when they loan excess funds to another agency.

” but even if it is, it’s still not what can be gained with direct investments-”

Again, direct investments in what? Gov’t agencies can’t be buying equity in companies. That makes them a part owner and requires them to vote on directors, potential takeovers, proxy battles. A real can of worms. Equities also take a back seat to bonds in the event of a bankruptcy which is another big reason that gov’t agencies can only buy debt- SS administrators are fiduciaries and cannot risk the money they manage. And companies can go bankrupt. Gov’t agencies can’t.

Investing SS money sounds easy until you start looking at how you would go about doing it. It isn’t easy for even a large mutual fund to invest because their sheer size affects the market they are investing in. Multiply that problem exponentially and you’d have an idea of what investing SSA money would be like.

[wardaddy]

Wow

You write exactly like texasaggie79

Anyone else here recall that dipshite?

Before JR zotted him for pro homo crap one night

He was another gen me crybaby

You mention 1980 numbnuts

The real power holders in 80 weren’t boomers they were the greatest and the Kerouac gen

Most entitlement giveaways were fostered in the 60s by WWI AND GREATEST GEN folks

Problem is there are a lot more folks now recieving those transfer payments and living 10-15 more years

Boomers vote better than under 35s especially whites

You don’t feel that I know

Good luck

You get to deal with non white majority Americanus

You’ll miss these dayz bad as they are

[Bob434]

[[Investing SS money sounds easy ]]

I never said it sounded easy- I can envision a number of issues that would crop up- but you said in previous post that you didn’t think it a wise idea because the money would be going to ‘line someone’s pocket’ (in congress), and one has to ask how using money from treasury bonds isn’t also winding up in congressional pockets as the money they ‘borrow’ goes towards general funds and projects and likely towards special interest groups, who in turn provide kickbacks, perks or whatever after their palms are greased so to speak-

[[That makes them a part owner and requires them to vote on directors, potential takeovers, proxy battles.]]

I don’t know much about how that works, but isn’t there a situation where there are silent shareholders/investors?

[[It isn’t easy for even a large mutual fund to invest because their sheer size affects the market they are investing in. Multiply that problem exponentially and you’d have an idea of what investing SSA money would be like.]]

Provided you invest it all- that would be true- however, even Clinton toyed with the idea of investing a portion of SS in private markets

The way the system stands now, it basically amounts to double taxation- but investing in private would help offset that problem, and possibly give greater retrns

[[Speech by SEC Chairman:
The SEC Perspective on Investing Social Security
In the Stock Market]]

In it He rasies many of the concerns you hav,e but also offers solutions

“Government Influence and the Private Sector
In addition to investor protection and investor education, another aspect of Social Security reform includes the impact of government investment in capital markets.
Those who favor having the government invest the Trust Fund in the stock market point out two major benefits. First, it allows market risk to be spread across society and even across generations. Second, given the economies of scale that the Trust Fund could achieve administrative costs would be significantly lower than for individual accounts.

But, I know some, including Chairman Greenspan, have raised strong objections to the government owning stock in public companies. They point out that this could lead to political interference in deciding which companies to invest in and how those companies are run. Could the government invest in a tobacco company? What about a company that was a toxic polluter a decade ago? More broadly, assuming the government invests in individual equities as opposed to market indexes, would it be able to vote its shares? If so, how?”

http://www.sec.gov/news/speech/speecharchive/1998/spch223.htm

It’s a fascinating article/discussion/read- I can not for the life of me find that other article I mentioned earlier- I believe it was a NRO article discussing ways that the money could be used in private investments - I’ll keep looking htough-

[Pelham]

“and one has to ask how using money from treasury bonds isn’t also winding up in congressional pockets as the money they ‘borrow’ goes towards general funds”

That’s a risk with all gov’t spending but it can be tracked when it’s done within an agency. Once it gets outside to a private firm there is far less accountability.

“I don’t know much about how that works, but isn’t there a situation where there are silent shareholders/investors?”

Class B non-voting stock. But there is no way that public funds should ever be put in that. In the event of bankruptcy that’s the last in line to be made whole. Class B stockholders would receive nothing. It would be a violation of fiduciary responsibility.

“Provided you invest it all- that would be true- however, even Clinton toyed with the idea of investing a portion of SS in private markets”

Clinton proposed partial privatization as did Dubya. And the quote you posted illustrates that Greenspan criticized it for the same reasons I’ve brought up. It puts the SSA in the position of voting on or controlling corporate policy, and considering the amount of money involved the SSA would be able to control a significant number of corporations.

The same leftwing activists who now use the EPA and the IRS to advance their agenda would flock to the SSA’s investment committee and they would have even more power to force their agenda on the country. And when it wasn’t the Left in control it would undoubtedly be the likes of the US Chamber of Commerce, another group with absolutely no interest in the American people.

[Freedom56v2]

Wow stereotype much?!?
I resent it—a lot! :/

[HonkyTonkMan]

There are so many articles on TV, print, internet etc. that pit one group of Americans against another

Excellent observation. We have lost the ability to think critically, to patently reject absurd statements & positions. I believe there are evil factions at play, working to tear down America. If a do not change course quickly, I fear we will tip over into the abyss. As Franklin said, a republic.....if you can keep it.

[Bob434]

[[The same leftwing activists who now use the EPA and the IRS to advance their agenda would flock to the SSA’s investment committee and they would have even more power to force their agenda on the country.]]

I don’t understand how special committees/programs would have access to it?

[[Clinton proposed partial privatization as did Dubya. And the quote you posted illustrates that Greenspan criticized it for the same reasons I’ve brought up.]]

Yeah but the article listed went into some detail why it could work- I believe-

[[Class B non-voting stock. But there is no way that public funds should ever be put in that.]]

Well like I said, I don’t know much about things like that- I am still lookin for that article- seemed like the writer knew about how it could be possible to invest with safeguards-

[Pelham]

“I don’t understand how special committees/programs would have access to it?”

If SS money is going to be invested in corporations you have to have an investment committee deciding what to buy. An investment committee filled with people having a political agenda would be enormously powerful. Corporations wanting investment money would be dancing to their tune, in the same fashion that insurance companies have gone along with Obamacare. This would be just one more avenue for a small group of political activists to gain enormous leverage throughout society.

“Yeah but the article listed went into some detail why it could work- I believe-”

It also included Greenspan’s reasons why it’s a bad idea. You’d have ‘Government Motors’ repeated over and over. The SSA investment committee could end up being the major shareholder in virtually any company they chose. This would soon be crony capitalism on steroids with a huge potential for front running by the investment committee and their friends.