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To: OldNewYork

I do not dispute anything you say about the North Africans. My concern was the attempt to make Jefferson into some kind of early 19th Century hawk, when he was far from it. The 1805 war was far from a crushing victory for the US. However, you should look into the later 1815 war with Algiers, led by Madison. Now that was victory. It amazes me that Jefferson’s war is celebrated when it was far from victory, but Madison’s war is ignored, when it was. As for fake surrender, I can only remember one ship to ship encounter between the forces. That being the Philadelphia. It’s capture was blamed on incompetence on the part of the ship’s leadership, even then. The only ship to ship encounter was a defeat for the US in the 1805 war. Again, in Madison’s war, the US Navy swept the Med clear of the Algerine fleet, sinking many of their top ships. 1815 is a clear date for the end of the Barbary Pirates. A student of history can easily deduce why. It was the end of the Napoleonic Wars, and the beginning of the era of the Congress of Vienna. European navies were freed from fighting each other, a far greater threat to themselves than the North Africans. Remember, not more than 20 years later, France conquers Algeria, the most powerful of the Barbary Pirates.

My bug a boo is with over the top history. History is far more fascinating and even heroic at times when told as it truly was. For example, the backstabbing of Jefferson and Lear do not in anyway take away from the accomplishments of William Eaton, a true hero. This guy was Lawrence of Arabia a century before Lawrence. Imagine a New England Yankee, Continental Army vet, leading Arab tribesman across the Libyan desert to capture the port of Derna. This story deserves a movie.


15 posted on 09/13/2015 2:14:34 AM PDT by gusty
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To: gusty

I appreciate the history lesson. You seem expert on this subject. I think you are reading too much into my allusion to the shores of Tripoli as a part for a whole: the conflict with North African Mohammedans. I never praised Jefferson, let alone mentioned him, certainly I never attempted to make him into any kind of early 19th Century hawk.

I’ll have to find the link for the ship to ship encounter for you. Found it - here it is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_1_August_1801#Battle The aftermath is interesting reading too.


16 posted on 09/13/2015 3:42:10 AM PDT by OldNewYork
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