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Inside the Waco Twin Peaks Biker Shootout with Biker Richard Luther
TheLipTV2 ^
| August 31, 2015
| TheLipTV2
Posted on 09/01/2015 12:46:36 PM PDT by ExyZ
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To: ExyZ
Very interesting interview, I hope Parker does some more.
21
posted on
09/01/2015 7:53:24 PM PDT
by
mac_truck
(Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
To: don-o
“Luther opines that bikers killed 3 and LE killed the rest and put injuries on several “
Luther says he has no information to support that LE killed the rest. He mentions hearing more than 3 handgun shots. Autopsies show that of the recovered and identified bullets, ONE was small caliber and SEVEN were NOT small caliber.
Interesting that he blames the cops.
1. He said that when he got their he wasn’t worried about being hurt by the Bandidos because the LE had them covered!
2. He later said if only the police had had them covered!
3. He also says that Jordon was shot in the chest by a Bandido. Jordon died from a head shot (medium/large caliber)
To: Smokin' Joe
“The inference is that the police did the shooting. “
He stated that he heard two small arms fire and then more and THEN heard rifle fire.
HE STATES that the bikers did the shooting.
He says he had no idea if the cops were shooting.
To: roamer_1
” It seems incredibly unlikely to me that he and others would not be just as keenly aware of those LEO positions, and their very qualified dominance over the battlefield in that parking lot.”
He said that he did not expect trouble from the Bandidos as he had observed the police ‘had them covered’. He was KEENLY aware of the police presence.
“IF there was intention on the biker’s part, from either side, it seems pretty short-sighted to continue without sending scouts to position in such a way as to counter that effective dominance, because otherwise, any idiot would be able to predict the ensuing turkey-shoot...
The Bandidos DID station ‘scouts’ all around the restaurant.
“It is far more likely that any such premeditated action would be called off to await a day with better odds.”
Premeditation? Their president was dissed and over twenty Cossacks come charging at them! Too late to ‘await a day with better odds’.
Besides, they got eight Cossacks dead. Cossack club is ruined but the Bandidos will continue to ride.
It is not about who lives or dies but what colors are on the road.
To: Clay Moore
“Typically it makes a sound like KaWHUMP. The Ka being the shot and the WHUMP the impact.”
From the vantage point of the shooter and supersonic bullets.
If you are near the target the impact happens before you hear the gunshot.
To: don-o
” but I heard him remarking that LE was NOT all that nearby as he arrived. “
As he describes his arrival at Twin Peaks he remarks at all the police presence and states that he felt the Bandidos would not cause trouble since the police ‘had them covered’.
Sounds like the Cossacks believed that the Waco police would protect the ‘local team’ even if the ‘local team’ decided to taunt the Bandidos.
To: Robert Teesdale
“Unfortunate there are no captions, rendering the video inscrutable to me. Would you be kind enough to summarize the key conclusions?”
1. Luther was happy to see that the cops ‘had them covered’.
2. Bandidos started parking lot incident.
3. Cossacks dissed Bandidos.
4. Cossacks charged Bandidos.
5. Bandidos started shooting Cossacks.
6. Luther hit the ground.
To: Robert Teesdale
“The subsequent traded obscenities also fit that scenario and don’t necessarily rise to the level of provoking armed retaliation.”
1. He states that the Bandidos punched the dude that came to the aid of the Cossack prospect.
2. He states that then 30 or 40 Cossacks jumped the rail to attack the Bandidos.
3. He then states he saw the Bandidos shooting.
4. He states he heard about five pistol shots before he hit the ground.
To: roamer_1
Good post. Another thing confirmed in this report, and the single most curious factor in the case of what went on that day is that this man saw police positions going in... It has never made any sense to me that a premeditated and intentional rumble would go forward within a virtual fishbowl with LEOs around the perimeter.
Nor that an unexpected and lethal outbreak of unchecked ego would take place in such circumstances, thanks to your next point:
Bikers, as a rule, are not fools... many of them having served in war, and many more having experienced less than favorable treatment with law enforcement... This guy was sharp enough to be uncomfortable with what he saw as a flanking movement by the Bandidos - It seems incredibly unlikely to me that he and others would not be just as keenly aware of those LEO positions, and their very qualified dominance over the battlefield in that parking lot.
It smells.
IF there was intention on the biker’s part, from either side, it seems pretty short-sighted to continue without sending scouts to position in such a way as to counter that effective dominance, because otherwise, any idiot would be able to predict the ensuing turkey-shoot...
And such scouting is ridiculous to depend upon. When an enemy has unqualified battlefield dominance, and unlimited resources in either engagement or pursuit, you don't try to beat it. It simply makes no sense as a serendipitous outcome.
It is far more likely that any such premeditated action would be called off to await a day with better odds. I know that if I had rolled up there, and saw such a presence, my radar would be screaming at me, and I would have rolled right on by (as proven on several occasions in my life). It makes no sense at all.
I also. You don't survive past your twenties without developing some sort of survival radar. If you are on a motorcycle often you learn quickly not to squid around. If you are a veteran, you also learn not to be stupid when arrayed forces are determinative. And all three put together tends to obviate the outcome we saw on May 17th.
There is a full story, that much is a given. Ultimately more will come out.
To: Robert Teesdale
“There is a full story, that much is a given. Ultimately more will come out. “
Every story that has come out so far validates a biker gang war and bikers killing bikers.
But more will come out.
Videos will come out.
More testimony will come out.
And more deniers will still deny.
Biker after Biker have stated that the bikers started the shooting and killing.
Bikers and families have stated that the police acted responsibly and probably saved lives that day.
And the dudes here with personal interest in biker gangs still deny.
To: Robert Teesdale
“If you are a veteran, you also learn not to be stupid when arrayed forces are determinative.”
What do you do when you are a Bandidos surrounded by armed Cossacks and 30 or 40 Cossacks come charging at you?
Duh ... you start shooting ....
To: Robert Teesdale
“It smells.”
Luther said the police made them take showers ...
To: roamer_1
“It has never made any sense to me that a premeditated and intentional rumble would go forward within a virtual fishbowl with LEOs around the perimeter.
Bikers, as a rule, are not fools... “
Biker gangs have rumbled right in front of cops plenty of times in the past. They just don’t give a damn.
To: TexasGator
Every story that has come out so far validates a biker gang war and bikers killing bikers.
Partly correct. That there was a shooting between bikers seems to be reliable information. That it is a "gang war" is hyperbole. Much like the law enforcement warning that "hundreds of Bandidos are headed to Texas to kill law enforcement with C4 explosives".
But more will come out.
Yes, it will, including from inside sources within the State (people cannot ever keep their mouths shut and loyalties in these troubled times are always mixed).
Videos will come out.
Except for those on the phones of witnesses, wiped by agents of the State to prevent disruption of the propagated official narrative.
More testimony will come out.
Except from those who are conveniently dead by State gunfire, and bled out in the parking lot while the State denied them medical care. Or from those who plead down capital murder charges to disorderly conduct with a gag agreement in order to preserve their lives and families.
And more deniers will still deny.
Including those who believe the security of the State trumps the rights of individuals, the rule of law, the imperatives of liberty, and the consciences of Men.
Biker after Biker have stated that the bikers started the shooting and killing.
Witness after witness have stated that prepositioned State paramilitaries engaged in massacre and coverup.
Bikers and families have stated that the police acted responsibly and probably saved lives that day.
I believe one person stated that, out of the hundreds of people there. There are more witnesses and injured who state otherwise.
And the dudes here with personal interest in biker gangs still deny.
You're one of them, simply on the other side.
How does it feel to be on the other side of your fellow Americans, as the land grows darker and alliances get drawn?
I don't like it.
But I'll do it.
"You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you."
To: Robert Teesdale
“Witness after witness have stated that prepositioned State paramilitaries engaged in massacre and coverup.”
LOL!
EVERYONE has said the bikers started the gunfight!
To: Boogieman
Biker gangs have rumbled right in front of cops plenty of times in the past. They just don’t give a damn.
While correct, there's a large difference between "fuck the cops, and fuck you" with subsequent drunk and disorderly charges capped with assault and criminal mischief... and commencing a lethal gunfight under the muzzles of hostile rifles.
To: Robert Teesdale
“I believe one person stated that, out of the hundreds of people there. There are more witnesses and injured who state otherwise.”
There were several. But where are all those witnesses that you say have stated otherwise?
Are you saying that Luther is making this up?
To: TexasGator
EVERYONE has said the bikers started the gunfight!
Where have I ever posted that bikers did NOT fire the first shot(s)? That is not a really relevant fact to me. My concern is with the subsequent actions by the State. I do not find those subsequent actions to be justified, legal, moral or acceptable - whether or not the bikers fired first or the State did. You do.
Hence our opposition, and hence our discussion. And that is all it is, discussion. No one is rolling up at your home to physically convince you otherwise. Nor at mine.
Yet.
The country may reach "yet". It's not really showing signs of slowing down the acceleration. But I don't believe this particular provocation will spark much beyond deeper hatred and deeper planning and more mestastization of insurgence.
To: TexasGator
There were several. But where are all those witnesses that you say have stated otherwise?
Mainstream media accounts, independent journalists and culturally embedded bloggers have all run stories about State conduct during the initial confrontation, the fusillades and the subsequent bleed-outs on the pavement - as well as video recordings of what clearly appears to be evidence planting by officers on the scene.
Are you saying that Luther is making this up?
I have not seen the video, as it is uncaptioned and I therefore rely on summarization from yourself and others. Based on those incomplete summarizations, I find parts of his narrative credible, other parts not credible.
By and large I do not find him to be mostly credible. It's a mix, as it is with any interview. Were I chairing an interrogation in a field encampment, deciding on a release with warning or having him tied to a post and shot, I'm not sure I'd be making either decision yet.
But as I'm simply observing and commenting, I don't need to carry it to that level of scrutiny.
To: TexasGator
As he describes his arrival at Twin Peaks he remarks at all the police presence.... Noting that some were behind the Don Carlos and others a "football field away" in the big parking lot. None were visible to the front of TP, toward the frontage road.
....and states that he felt the Bandidos would not cause trouble since the police ‘had them covered’.
Provide the time stamp when he says this because I listened twice and do not hear it.
40
posted on
09/02/2015 10:18:18 AM PDT
by
don-o
(I am Kenneth Carlisle - Waco 5/17/15)
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