Inside the Waco Twin Peaks Biker Shootout with Biker Richard Luther

TheLipTV2 ^ | August 31, 2015 | TheLipTV2

[AMDG&BVMH]

You say: “Were I investigating this as a club officer, or merely as an interested patriot looking for a motivating hand - I would be asking questions about that rolled-over foot in the parking lot. I have reviewed no evidence nor have I read any statements other than it appears that foot initiated the entire chain of events. At the end of that chain of events, nine are dead and over a score wounded and mass arrests and the entire frustrating, enraging, tragic and murderous spectacle is a fait accompli.

“If I wished to instigate such an outcome - whether I were a cynical law enforcement agent or an ambitious club officer or a desperate informant or any other entity - a foot like that is precisely how I would trigger it. Reliable, tiny, adjustable, provocative, predictable, deniable, reasonable, achievable, recoverable, believable.”

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You imply more than you state or are willing to share. Inside information? conclusions drawn?

I don’t know what you are getting at here, RT, about the biker’s foot, or don-o, about the involvement of ATF. Please share as is possible.

In the mean time, based on the information I have, and with which you seem to agree, Prospect (Cossack, but former Bandido) and Bandido President Martinez, were the immediate cause of the confrontation leading to 9 dead, 18 more wounded, and 177 arrested.

Prospect watching the Cossack bikes; Martinez rolling up with his Dallas Bandidos, rolling over Prospect’s foot, the precipitating event.

Neither Prospect nor Martinez were undercover, at least, not the guy in the red boots. Cliff the Prospect, is said to be paralyzed from the waist down. Martinez went to jail.

If you’ve got something that the rest of us do not, whether information or conclusions, please let us in on it.

[ExyZ]

And so they are not a designated criminal gang. Thank you.

It’s very similar to the way an innocent officer might have joined a department like in Tulia and not have realised it was essentially a criminal gang.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/22/tulia.pardons/index.html

Or in the same way an innocent officer might have joined a department like in Broklyn Illinois and not have realised it was essentially a criminal gang.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/brooklyn-police-chief-leaves-after-raid-by-illinois-troopers/article_aa36fd99-38d7-5120-b5b8-c8d0a63483e7.html

Or in the same way an innocent officer might have joined a department like in Tenaha and not have realised it was essentially a criminal gang.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-texas-profiling_wittmar10-story.html

[ExyZ]

I know. It’s great stuff. Laugh it up, Gator.

Keep letting the few alienate more and more of the population with their stupidly over the top gonzo law enforcement. More finger-banging in both holes of innocent women in roadside traffic stops. And more finger-banging of underaged teenaged males too.

http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/milwaukee-cavity-search-spree/

I think this officer’s attitude sums up quite well the current mindset of some LEOs to the public.

http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2015/09/oakland-police-officer-spits-on-man-recording-him-in-public/

I sense the tide is turning, and legislatures and going to stop funding this stupidity.

[mac_truck]

I don’t think the prospect (and former Bandido) who traveled to Twin Peaks with Richard Luther is the same person as the prospect named Cliff who’s foot got rolled on, then shot and is now partially paralyzed.

I think Luther would have mentioned it during the interview if he was.

[Boogieman]

“It’s very similar to the way an innocent officer might have joined a department like in Tulia and not have realised it was essentially a criminal gang.”

Nonsense. Police departments don’t demand you commit felonies as a condition of admittance, outlaw biker gangs do. So there is zero possibility someone could join “accidentally” without knowing they were criminals.

It’s possible, perhaps, for a new prospect to have made that mistake, but not for any patched member and probably not for anyone who has been a prospect for more than a few weeks.

[Robert Teesdale]

You imply more than you state or are willing to share. Inside information? conclusions drawn?

I have no inside information and have not moved from speculation to conclusion regarding the initial provocation. What conclusions I have drawn have to do with the Constitutional violations that took place that day.

I don’t know what you are getting at here, RT, about the biker’s foot, or don-o, about the involvement of ATF. Please share as is possible.

I am going to keep my own counsel on the foot at this point. I have not thought my concern through enough yet to be comfortable offering it publicly. With respect to the BATFE involvement it is quite simple. What he is saying is that information available, some of it nonpublic, indicates that this is a botched Federal operation and the Waco PD is being left with the bag.

I have not worked through that aspect of it enough, including discussion and review of material, to comment in depth other than to say I am in agreement with don-o.

In the mean time, based on the information I have, and with which you seem to agree, Prospect (Cossack, but former Bandido) and Bandido President Martinez, were the immediate cause of the confrontation leading to 9 dead, 18 more wounded, and 177 arrested.

I would rather say "first affected" rather than "cause" at this point.

Prospect watching the Cossack bikes; Martinez rolling up with his Dallas Bandidos, rolling over Prospect’s foot, the precipitating event.

Not quite. I'll elaborate a little more in a moment.

Neither Prospect nor Martinez were undercover, at least, not the guy in the red boots. Cliff the Prospect, is said to be paralyzed from the waist down. Martinez went to jail.

Red Boots

(I can't generally vouch for the journalism at that link, but that particular story smells credible.)

If you’ve got something that the rest of us do not, whether information or conclusions, please let us in on it.

It is more a matter of knowing how some things work and not being able to reconcile that experience with narrative. I hear "former Bandido, now Cossack prospect" and that raises a big red credibility flag. Combine that with the "law enforcement invitation" and heavy Federal presence at the scene but silence from those agencies subsequently, and you have a rather self-writing narrative which does not look good.

[Robert Teesdale]

I sense the tide is turning, and legislatures and going to stop funding this stupidity.

Not to mention law enforcement being fatally ambushed at an interestingly increasing rate.

[AMDG&BVMH]

“former Bandido, now Cossack prospect”

It was pointed out by another poster, that the Cossack Prospect who rode to TP with Luther and was the former Bandido, might not be the same Prospect that had his foot run over. Don’t know.

[Boogieman]

“And so they are not a designated criminal gang”

I don’t care if they are “designated” or not, they’re still a criminal gang.

They:

a) Wear the regalia of a criminal gang
b) Conspire together to criminal acts like a criminal gang
c) Engage in violent turf battles with other criminal gangs

So, obviously they’re a criminal gang. It doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes to crack this case, buddy.

Now, I imagine DPS didn’t designate them because they are small potatoes compared to other gangs and cartels that operate in Texas. DPS is a state agency, so their job is to focus on threats with a statewide presence, which the Cossacks don’t seem to have had.