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To: NKP_Vet
And most of the time the characters are doing neither what is right or wrong but what is needed to further their clan; in the words of Tywin Lannister, a cold and ruthless aristocrat based on Edward I, he is a man who does what is necessary — and it’s often horrible.

True enough. However, what finally turned me off the books, quite some time before the movie came out, was the absence of characters, after the death of Stark, who were honorable by the standards of their time.

We forget how utterly necessary a reputation (at least) for honor was to a medieval leader. There was no government, in the sense we think of it, only reciprocal vows of fealty and protection. A leader's power was quite literally based on his follower's belief that he was a man who would honor his vows to them, which was what led them to honor theirs to him.

Yes, Richard III probably bumped off his nephews in the Tower, something mentioned in the article. But that's precisely my point. By doing so, he lost the support of his followers, who abandoned him or turned against him, some of them on the field of battle itself.

GOT ignores the huge number of medieval men who did indeed behave honorably. One good example was John of Gaunt, ancestor of the Lancasters. He was regent for Richard II, who had succeeded at the age of 10. John could easily have usurped the throne, but remained loyal.

Another example was John of Bedford, himself a Lancaster, who loyally protected and served his nephew Henry VI, who succeeded his father as King while still less than a year old.

It seems to me GOT completely ignored the down-side, politically speaking, of a reputation for not behaving in a way seen as honorable by peers and vassals. To be sure, what that consisted of was often quite different from what we would consider it to be today.

Seems to me Martin projected the modern attitude of disdain and cynicism about personal honor back into the Middle Ages where it just didn't belong. Such men certainly existed, but they had to a considerable extent hide it. There were very real limits on what a medieval noble or king could do without destroying his own power base.

19 posted on 03/30/2014 9:23:58 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan

Nice perspective. I don’t think modern people are aware of the code of knightly chivalry (Geoffrey de Charny).


21 posted on 03/30/2014 9:34:17 AM PDT by thecodont
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To: Sherman Logan

Nice perspective. I don’t think modern people are aware of the code of knightly chivalry (Geoffrey de Charny).


22 posted on 03/30/2014 9:34:18 AM PDT by thecodont
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To: Sherman Logan

“Such men certainly existed”

Yes they, and they were called the Knights Templar.


31 posted on 03/30/2014 9:49:18 AM PDT by NKP_Vet ("It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died;we should thank God that such men lived" ~ Patton)
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To: Sherman Logan

I don’t know where I originally found this, here is one link. Hmm, interesting lists on it, and other links.

http://marshall.freeshell.org/chivalry.html

The Ten Commandments of the Code of Chivalry

THE CODE:
Thou shalt respect the weak and constitute thyself the defender of them.
Thou shalt love the land to which thou hast sworn fealty.
Thou shalt not recoil before thine enemy.
Thou shalt make war upon evil without cessation.
Thou shalt scrupulously perform thy noble duties be they not contrary to the laws of the land.
Thou shalt be generous and give freely to everyone.
Thou shalt never lie and shall always be faithful to thy word.
Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.

THE MEASURE:
A Knight is sworn to Valor;
His heart must know only Virtue;
His Perfect blade must defend the helpless,
And his might shall uphold all weak.
His breath shall bring a word that speaks only truth.
His justly wrath shall undo the wicked.


37 posted on 03/30/2014 12:44:22 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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