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To: rockrr

“I already dealt with it fool.”

Somebody squeezing your head, rocky? Some of what popped out ended up in your post.

Of course you haven’t “dealt with it” in any other manner than your usual name calling.

So I’ll make the problem real simple for you. I’ll start with your premise that slave owning is evil.

Slave owners = Evil

Founders = Slave owners

A=B
C=A
therefore C=....

In math class tomorrow, rocky, you can ask your teacher to explain to you the Transitive Property of Equality and he can tell you what C equals in the example above.


151 posted on 08/30/2013 8:14:01 PM PDT by Pelham (Deportation is the law. When it's not enforced you get California)
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To: Pelham; rockrr
Slave owners = Evil. Founders = Slave owners.

As usual, Lincoln addressed this issue best.

Before proceeding, let me say I think I have no prejudice against the Southern people. They are just what we would be in their situation. If slavery did not now exist amongst them, they would not introduce it. If it did now exist amongst us, we should not instantly give it up. This I believe of the masses north and south. ..

When southern people tell us they are no more responsible for the origin of slavery, than we; I acknowledge the fact. When it is said that the institution exists; and that it is very difficult to get rid of it, in any satisfactory way, I can understand and appreciate the saying. I surely will not blame them for not doing what I should not know how to do myself. If all earthly power were given me, I should not know what to do, as to the existing institution.

However, what is always and forever evil is declaring evil to be a positive good, much less launching a vicious war to protect an evil institution. I do not include all southerners in this group, not even southerners of the time. But I do that small minority of southerners who worked for and plotted to bring about secession, the Fire-Eaters.

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight.

Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel. Therefore the Lord’s anger burns against his people; his hand is raised and he strikes them down. The mountains shake, and the dead bodies are like refuse in the street.

Lincoln also addressed this issue best.

If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

158 posted on 08/30/2013 9:35:12 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Pelham; rockrr; Sherman Logan; Tau Food
Pelham: "Slave owners = Evil
Founders = Slave owners"

At the time of the Declaration of Independence, our Founders believed that slavery had been imposed on America by Britain, and that was one item in Jefferson's original list of grievances against the king.
When the Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776, slavery was legal in all 13 colonies.

Even by the Constitutional Convention of 1787 only Vermont and Massachusetts had fully abolished slavery, while Pennsylvania, Connecticut and Rhode Island began gradually phasing it out.
Slavery in Pennsylvania, for example, did not fully end until 1847.

At same time that some northern states began to slowly abolish slavery, southern Founders like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and James Madison all acknowledged slavery was wrong and should be eventually abolished.

Had those views prevailed in the South, there would certainly be no Civil War, and our whole national conversation today would have been much different.

But between the time of Thomas Jefferson and, say, Jefferson Davis, there was a major change in attitude in the South, caused by economic realities and a pro-slavery ideology developed to justify them.
So, where Thomas Jefferson saw slavery as an evil to be abolished, eventually, Jefferson Davis saw it as a positive good to be defended with lives of hundreds of thousands of fellow Southerners.

That's the difference.

160 posted on 08/31/2013 5:12:32 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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