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To: Kip Russell

The occult is dangerous so I share that general concern. But I suspect these men mean well and I don’t believe these particular guys are involved with occultic practices, so that argument seems silly. However, I find it hard to take “Christian magicians” all that seriously. They are part of the pragmatic ethic that has taken hold in the modern circus church world. Disciples are made through His word, through the foolishness of preaching, not through magic, juggling, motorcycle riding, rodeo, comedy, feats of strength and all the other worldly things people purport to do for Jesus. None of those activities point a sinner to Christ. If people got back into the Bible and learned once and for all how God saves sinners a lot of silliness would stop.

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” (Romans 1:16)

“For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.” (1 Cor. 1:21)

“How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?” (Romans 10:14)


14 posted on 07/23/2013 7:08:17 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: .45 Long Colt
The occult is dangerous so I share that general concern.

Nothing promotes the occult more than the medieval idiocy that the occult actually "works" in any way, shape, or form.

16 posted on 07/23/2013 7:22:31 AM PDT by Strategerist
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To: .45 Long Colt

re: “Disciples are made through His word, through the foolishness of preaching, not through magic, juggling, motorcycle riding, rodeo, comedy, feats of strength and all the other worldly things people purport to do for Jesus. None of those activities point a sinner to Christ. If people got back into the Bible and learned once and for all how God saves sinners a lot of silliness would stop.”

.45 Long Colt, I too am often put off by the outlandishness of some so-called “Christian” celebrities. On the other hand, I’m not sure it’s fair to claim that Christians who use certain talents they have in presenting their Christian witness are attempting to throw out “preaching” or supplant the “preaching of the Gospel”.

Presenting the Gospel doesn’t always come through preaching in a pulpit at church. When you talk with a friend of yours about your faith in Christ, you aren’t “preaching” from the pulpit, but you are witnessing/preaching to them, don’t you think?

Obviously you are not in a formal church service, but you are presenting the Gospel. You are giving reasons to them for why they should have faith in Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior - isn’t that also preaching? Preaching on the individual level, is often called a “witness” or “giving a testimony”, but aren’t they pretty much attempting to accomplish the same thing?

If you were to give the same personal testimony in a crowd of people or as part of a worship service - would you be thwarting the ministry of preaching? No, you’re just giving your personal testimony in the unique way that is from your personal experience.

That’s what most of these Christian performers are doing. They are giving a witness through a very unique way of personal testimony.

I’m not condoning every one of these type of ministries because I have seen some where the individual giving the testimony is more concerned with promoting themselves than Christ.

I’m just saying, in general, I don’t have a problem with someone using a special talent they have to present the Gospel to non-believers. Christian films, radio programs, music, etc. can be wonderful assets in presenting the Gospel.

However, I totally agree with you that developing Christian discipleship must be done by encouraging people to become involved in good, solid Bible Study, as well as attend regular worship services where they hear good Bible preaching/teaching every Sunday. That’s the role of the Church.

But, that is generally not the purpose of these Christian performers, nor is it their role. Their object/purpose is evangelism - it’s getting a hearing for the Gospel - to present it in a way that may peak the interest of a lost person who would never darken a church to hear traditional preaching.

Evangelistic preaching can be done from the pulpit and it can be done in your living room. It can be done over the phone, on the radio, on TV. It can be done talking with co-workers at lunch. It can be done through singing a Christian song, telling humorous stories, doing illusions (with a Christian point to it), through skits, through movies, and on an on.

Evangelistic preaching can be accomplished in a variety of ways - not just from a pulpit. But, is every sermon your pastor or priest gives, is it strictly an “evangelistic” sermon? Probably not. Sometimes they are “teaching” sermons regarding specific passages of Scripture, or a specific “topic” from Scripture.

And, did Paul and the Apostles ALWAYS tell others about Christ from a pulpit? Did they only go to the synagogue? Paul witnessed to the Roman guard chained to watch him - was that NOT preaching? Paul and Silas, after being beaten and imprisoned in Phillipi, sang songs of praise to God - the Bible says the other prisoners, including the jailer, were listening. I think that was preaching as well.

We send missionaries to various countries and use points of contact and need to get a hearing - building water wells, medical facilities, education, etc. - all to get a hearing for the Gospel.

Anyway, I think that is what most of these Christian performers are trying to do: witness and preach the Gospel as Christ commanded us to do, but with our own unique gifts and abilities.


24 posted on 07/23/2013 8:01:57 AM PDT by rusty schucklefurd
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To: .45 Long Colt

I agree, in principle. The seeker-friendly, church and circuses movement is patently ungodly. However, there is also Proverbs 22: 29

Do you see a man who excels in his work?
He will stand before kings;
He will not stand before unknown men.

All work can be used for the glory of God. All are called to spread the Gospel. Not all are called to preach.


32 posted on 07/23/2013 12:25:44 PM PDT by antidisestablishment (Mahound delenda est)
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