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Advice about depression, please
myself | May 29 2013 | myself

Posted on 05/28/2013 10:47:14 PM PDT by proud American in Canada

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To: Toespi
Look at depression as a voice from God to encourage you to look inward for answers and change in your life.

I'm horning in here uninvited, but I just want to say that your insight seems to be very accurate, and not something the ordinary physician nay completely miss. Twice in my life I had depressive episodes that just floored me, but they were both occasions when I knew I was not right with God, and I had to repent big time. If you look at this closely, turning from habitual sin is a withdrawal process, in psychological jargon.

Getting right with God in the end makes you feel much better! That's the change going on that you mentioned. Satan just hates to lose control over you when you reach out to Jesus in full faith, and He reaches out and pulls you out of the miry pit, and puts a new song in you.

101 posted on 05/29/2013 7:19:26 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what He has done for my soul. Ps 66:16)
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To: presently no screen name

Where does “imaging” come in with this ???


102 posted on 05/29/2013 7:25:27 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what He has done for my soul. Ps 66:16)
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To: imardmd1

You expressed my thoughts much better than I did. LOL. First and foremost, anyone with severe clinical depression should immediately seek help. That said, our society wants everyone to be happy and that is not what God intended. There are always going to be periods in people’s lives where they are confused and unhappy, it is now called depression. I truly believe these are moments when we are forced to look inward, become closer to God, and learn more about ourselves, where we have been and where we are going. Instead, doctors throw anti-depressants at us and that becomes our temporary salvation, therefore one’s journey ends. We should embrace these moments of our lives, not fear them.


103 posted on 05/29/2013 7:37:56 PM PDT by Toespi
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To: imardmd1

Putting one’s mind on something that is lasting and not our present problems or even when things are great. You don’t need a reason to imagine about something that will happen unless one thinks that it will never happen.


104 posted on 05/29/2013 8:33:11 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name; proud American in Canada
Since the subject was depression and doctors, I am keeping on subject. You sounded like you thought faith and prayer was enough to help, therefore based on your answer, I followed your lead and brought up whether you use doctors for yourself and kids. Our Canadian friend was asking for possible answers as she had been praying and it wasn't helping....sometimes God stays quiet and holds you close until you move on your problem. At times you have to ask God to guide your feet and not just pray, get up and find your help....

Jesus also raised up doctors and the fact that he did has nothing to do with St Luke. Maybe you also should focus when someone asks for suggestions faith and prayer are not what they need as they have been doing that already...

I gather by your answer you use doctors, yet you did not suggest that to our fellow freeper in Canada...

105 posted on 05/29/2013 10:13:27 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: goat granny
I followed your lead and brought up whether you use doctors for yourself and kids.

I did not bring up my children - YOU DID! And you sound like an old busy body.

as she had been praying and it wasn't helping

No she didn't - You are one who is adamant about that.

Give it up, you have nothing to offer.

106 posted on 05/29/2013 10:46:27 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: proud American in Canada

Drop a note a let us know what’s going on.


107 posted on 05/30/2013 12:10:43 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: presently no screen name; goat granny
Ah, now I get it--you meant imagining as with "dreaming something up," not imaging as in "making a copy of something."

In Psalm 128:1-2, "Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD, that walketh in his ways. For thou shalt eat the labour of thine hands: happy shalt thou be, and it shall be well with thee."

What does it mean, to "fear the LORD"? It means to dread disappointing or disobeying Him! And how can one "walk in His ways"? It means to walk a narrow path of death to self, to Sin as a master, and to the world; and a life of following Christ, illustrated in learning from spiritually mature people. Mimic--be a copy, an image--of them!

"And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises." (Heb. 6:11-12)

Thus one's imagination must have bounds, Satan loves to have you use your imagination the wrong way. Depression comes from that, so--beware of imaginations! Don't walk the broad way to Hell!

"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh. (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing thar exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; ..." (2 Cor. 10:3-5)

How did the saints like David and Peter and and Martin Luther overcome depression for thousands of years? By allowing the Holy Ghost to control ones thoughts, attitudes, plans, and activities. How long has Prozac (antidepressants) or Valium (anti-anxiety) been around? About only forty years, and they attempt to wrest the function of changing how you feel away from the Holy Ghost, Who has been doing this since the earth was formed, thus contradicting the weapons of warfare God has given to the saints!

I've got a little book here that lists 35 antidepressants and another 26 antianxiety drugs (not to mention dozens of the same chemical constitution but with another name) whose effects have never been totally known for a particular person! All produce dependency, like alcohol and heroin do. Some, of the benzodiazopine types, rapidly produce chemical addiction and mind changes that can only be escaped by death. Do general physicians know what they are prescribing of these does to an individual? Rarely. Do psychiatrists or their clinical psychologist partners? only barely, usually. Those who know in depth but are enriching themselves by chemistry are not talking. IMHO, but you can believe otherwise.

"Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. And be not drunk (addicted to, dependent on) wine (beer, antidepressants, benzodiazepines, heroin, marijuana, cocaine), wherein is excess, but be filled with The Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and The Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God." (Eph. 5:17-22, with comparisons and emphasis solely mine))

Should I recommend that "A Proud American in Canada" seek out chemical means to displace the Holy Ghost? I say, "No!" and I've been there. Here's what one should do:

"Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts tothe Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him." (Col. 3:16-17)

Is this sufficient for conquering deprression? I say, "Yes!" -- it has for hundreds of years, and it has for me. I've been there, too; and still am there, preserved by the indwelling work of the marvellous all-sufficient Holy Ghost!

Be warned--most of the "Christian" music formulated and performed today is produced by either unregenerated "believers" or by undiscipled spiritual babes, and is full of emotive "holiness" but devoid of rich Scripture references and holiness obtained by persistent application. For most stage performers, this is just a quasi-spiritual cash register. Look at their lives. Stay away from this stuff, and search out the great hymns found in a wisely compiled pew song book. Start with just memorizing Holy Scripture and saying/singing it to oneself and God. This is the way out of depression, not by chemistry, and certainly not by suicidal avoidance which cannot erase the effects to one's eternal soul.

Again, if you want to be joyous in the Lord, follow Psalm 128:1-2 precisely (and Philippians 4:6-9 as another has pointed out previously). Fear God, discern His Ways. It will be well with you.

With respect --

108 posted on 05/30/2013 2:23:45 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what He has done for my soul. Ps 66:16)
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To: imardmd1

I know you mean well, but don’t need a sermon or quoting from the bible as it has nothing to do with my first reply to our fellow freeper in canada.


109 posted on 05/30/2013 2:56:03 AM PDT by goat granny
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To: presently no screen name

LOL this busy body has as much a right to my opinion and anything I think, or suggestions I post....answer if you feel the need, it will not be replied to, you offer nothing cogent to the subject... being the first one calling a person a name means you have lost the debate.


110 posted on 05/30/2013 3:03:48 AM PDT by goat granny
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To: goat granny

You have no right inquiring about my children. You don’t even know when you are out of place; you have to be told.


111 posted on 05/30/2013 4:50:56 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: imardmd1

It boils down to my spelling, sorry.


112 posted on 05/30/2013 4:58:45 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: goat granny; presently no screen name; proud American in Canada
I know you mean well, but don’t need a sermon or quoting from the bible as it has nothing to do with my first reply to our fellow freeper in canada.

First, note that I was primarily replying to "presently no name," but also to one of your posts to him/her on 95 and 104. In this issue, you may be a physician or an over-reaching layman, but you are not attaching any warnings to your advice on chemical approaches to depression. Neither did wardaddy. And Scripture is exactly pertinent to this issue, which I was laying it out to "presently no screen name" and you. And, somehow, you are missing the point that you are missing the point.

I believe in doctors. I am one, a theoretical one, granted before PhDs became cheap. I go to one as my personal physician. In 2010, a (I presume Hindu) jolly, very capable neurosurgeon removed a meningioma about the size of a small lemon from my cranium, which was crowding out my brain. Last July, I became dehydrated and almost died, but was at the last moment 911 brought me an ambulance, medical technicians, and attention by several doctors at the hospital. Later on in the year, a urologist (undoubtedly a Muslim) addressed an unpassable kidney stone with lithitripsy, involving yet more specialists. And I have been walking around now with a bad right foot poorly set by another Muslim orthopedic surgeon when I broke both feet in an accidental fall.

Did I trust in these special people? Yes. Were they always correct in their disciplines? Mostly, not always. Were they my spiritual advisors? No, and I could be a good advisor in this matter to any of them. Were any proficient in training of prescriptive antidepressants and/or benzodiazepine/antianxiety drugs? No, although each could prescribe any of them that he wished.

And I would never have allowed any of them to give me advice in this area in this day. Why? Because once in the early 70s I rendered myself to one psychiatrist/clinical psychologist team, with tricyclic antidepressants. The upside? The drugs did not help, though they made me feel wooden. The downside? If they worked. Antidepressants do not make you feel happy, they just rob you of passion, IMHO.

The second time was in the early 80s, when I again tried that approach, and it didn't work in the same way.

My dear granny, until you have suffered through your Christian son's messy divorce with no basis of infidelity on his part, but having to deal with a wife strung out 10 years on an alphabet soup of antidepressants and benzodiazepines, as well as antipsychotics; and having to raise five children who effectively had no mother by her decision; you haven't lived in that world.

Until you've sat with and shepherded a solidly Scripturally mature Christian friend who became addicted to benzodiazepines through the "kind" ministries and prescriptions from the VA (Ativan/lorazepam, Klonopin/Chlorazepam, Valium/diazepam, and Adderall/methamphetamine) you haven't prayed it through with the horrible year or more titration withdrawal effects it brings. For these, a cold turkey stop will bring on suicides of those who have lost all hope (in their imagination) when recommended by the VA doctors.

Do you not know that the Army Medical Command has withdrawn most of the benzodiazepines and some antipsychotics (Seroqil, Risperidone) from the Centcom formulary in treating at-risk Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers and vet returnees?

If you haven't read Robert Whittaker's "Anatomy of an Epidemic: Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental Illness in America," you need to before making a layman's recommendation to sad people. I have.

Is it getting through that depression is a spiritual disease, and those who only describe it as being a "mental disease" susceptible to cureall chemical magic bullet-in-a-pill tactic, never available before the 70s to enrich the coffers of big pharma and its stock-owners (including doctors who prescribe and boost them) may literally be sending their gullible adherents to Hell and later the Lake of Fire.

So, giving spiritual advice through correct application of Biblical passages addressing the issue are not irrelevant. Spiritual bullets are effective, for they penetrate right down to the cause, be it diabetes, alcoholism, futile love objects, or other chemical imbalances subject to the power of positive praying and company. For you, particularly, is why I put you as an addressee.

You don't seem to think that ones faith figures into this. Why not? Where are you in the faith?

"Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?" (2 Cor. 13:5)

Concernedly and humbly offered --

It is good when proud people offer themselves meekly at the feet of Christ, Lord of All -- is it not?

113 posted on 05/30/2013 5:53:11 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Let the redeemed of The LORD say so, whom He hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy. (Ps. 107:2))
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To: presently no screen name
It boils down to my spelling, sorry.

Ah, but I think it was a Providential slip! Thanks. Sorry I was so dense.

114 posted on 05/30/2013 6:03:18 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Let the redeemed of The LORD say so, whom He hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy. (Ps. 107:2))
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To: imardmd1

Now your’s is an experience speaking post. Hopefully, some will learn from it. Life is too short to learn only from our own experiences and/or lack of. So thank you for sharing it.

Some rather be adamant while their lack of knowledge is evident.


115 posted on 05/30/2013 7:06:03 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: imardmd1

You weren’t dense - now I see it all as funny. Like my hearing aid was turned down or something. And I don’t have one. ;)


116 posted on 05/30/2013 7:10:14 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: imardmd1
Spiritual bullets are effective, for they penetrate right down to the cause, be it diabetes, alcoholism, futile love objects,

So Well stated!

"For the Word of God is ALIVE and ACTIVE. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart." Heb 4:12

117 posted on 05/30/2013 7:15:20 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name; proud American in Canada
Spiritual bullets are effective ...

"Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again. But whoever drinks of the water that I shall guve him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." (Jn. 4:13,14 NKJV)

And so it is. With sincere appreciation for your attention to someone's great need!

118 posted on 05/30/2013 8:12:04 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Let the redeemed of The LORD say so, whom He hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy. (Ps. 107:2))
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To: zeestephen

“Thinking about Marco Rubio and Chris Christie makes me want to die, too,”

LOL, literally! :) thank you everyone for your support. :)


119 posted on 05/30/2013 9:36:08 PM PDT by proud American in Canada (R.I.P., James Helmuth, my nephew who just passed away at ten years old, from cancer, on March 23.)
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To: proud American in Canada

We very recently lost a mother of 10 children in our homeschool community due to depression. This is an incredible blog post written about it that I think all women would benefit from reading. I hope you find something useful from it.

http://www.chattycatholicdoll.com/woman-down/


120 posted on 05/30/2013 10:00:07 PM PDT by samiam1972 ("It is a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."-Mother Teresa)
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To: goat granny; presently no screen name; proud American in Canada

Please do not fight. This subject is important enough to give up that bullshit and get down to the real issues. How can we help this freeper “proud American in Canada” and others who are similar? In today’s modern christian experience, one is much more likely to encounter scorn, derision and judgement in the supposed sanctuary of The Lord than one is to encounter love and hope.


121 posted on 06/02/2013 12:50:10 AM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo; proud American in Canada

The reason I told the freeper your talking about that I will not answer any more of his/her response to me, I did not want to hi-jack the thread with name calling debate. I have not responded to the freeper as I said I would not. I thank you for your wise response, I agree. My response in my very first post was seek medical intervention. It is a serious subject and asking for medical intervention is nothing for our Proud American in Canada freeper to be afraid or ashamed to do. Most of us realize that at times medical treatment is necessary.


122 posted on 06/02/2013 6:50:45 AM PDT by goat granny
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