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To: Jeff Winston

For the record, James Madison said that place was “the MOST certain criterion” of allegiance, not the “more” certain criterion.


108 posted on 04/16/2013 9:09:44 AM PDT by Nero Germanicus
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To: Nero Germanicus

My bad! I was writing from memory. :-)


110 posted on 04/16/2013 9:12:37 AM PDT by Jeff Winston
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To: Nero Germanicus
For the record, James Madison said that place was “the MOST certain criterion” of allegiance, not the “more” certain criterion.

Even in the context of Madison's comment, "place" is not just a simpleminded geographical construct. It incorporates the concept of "within a community" as it's basic element. Madison explains this further if you read the rest of what he wrote.

It is exactly the same thing in the 14th amendment when they require "subject to the jurisdiction thereof." They don't spell-out what this means in the Amendment itself, but in their comments during the debate they do. The lead author (John Bingham) explicitly says:

I find no fault with the introductory clause, which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, [ - prior to the 14th Amendment] that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural-born citizen;

If you are not already aware, I direct your attention to the fact that William Loughton Smith himself cites Vattel's notion of citizenship passing through the father in his defense of his citizenship. (see also previous comment to the resident liar/idiot.)

The Doctor says the circumstance of birth does not make a citizen- This I also deny. Vattel says, " The country of the father is that of the children, and these become citizens merely by their tacit consent. " I was born a Carolinian, and I defy the Doctor with all his ingenuity, arithmetical or political, to say at what moment I was disfranchised- at what moment I lost my citizenship.

116 posted on 04/16/2013 12:18:28 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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