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2013 FORMULA 1 UBS CHINESE GRAND PRIX - LIVE THREAD
Chode ^ | 4/11/2012 | Chode

Posted on 04/11/2013 5:05:59 PM PDT by Chode

Shanghai Formula 1

Race Date: 14 Apr 2013
Circuit Name: Shanghai International Circuit
First Grand Prix: 2004
Number of Laps: 56
Circuit Length: 5.451 km
Race Distance: 305.066 km
Lap Record: 1:32.238 - M Schumacher (2004)

Cloudy 19C

Cloudy 24C

Cloudy 20C



TOPICS: Sports
KEYWORDS: f1; formulaone; grandprix
on/off... if you want on or off the F1 list mash here to get added/removed

one of these links should work... http://www.justin.tv/directory/sports/auto_racing ...or...vipbox-F1

1 posted on 04/11/2013 5:05:59 PM PDT by Chode
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To: Chode; al_c; atc23; Bad~Rodeo; Betis70; biff; bobby.223; bobt7818; BreezyDog; brf1; briankk; ...
UP...!!!

Some good stuff...

Red Bull to reduce the use of team orders after Sebastian Vettel row

Sebastian Vettel: I may disobey Red Bull orders again

The Chinese Grand Prix - did you know?
The Shanghai International Circuit has been the location for the Chinese Grand Prix since its inception in 2004 and this year hosts the race for a tenth time. In preparation, we bring you some of the more noteworthy trivia about the event…

2 posted on 04/11/2013 5:07:10 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Chode
So Vettel said he might disregard team orders again if told to stay behind Webber. Interesting. But then he also said he has never had Webber's support when he was leading a race. Webber himself has been quoted as saying he wouldn't do anything to help Vettel.

Nothing wrong with a little competition between team mates, but this sounds like thinly veiled disrespect for each other. Rb better gat a handle on it before it spreads to the whole team, where people start to choose sides.

I can see doing something to help a team mate win, if you yourself have no chance of winning, but not at the cost of losing a position. These guys are RACE drivers, let them race. RB has said they will try to cut back on the "team order" stuff. Maybe RB itself has learned something here. People got race and others tune in to see a "race", not follow-the-leader.

The race is on NBCSN (220 on DirecTV) at 3 AM (pre-race stuff tarts at 2). Good thing the ol' DVR is still working!

3 posted on 04/11/2013 6:51:33 PM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: jeffc

Ooops! My bad: NBCSN coverage starts at 2:30 AM, not 2.


4 posted on 04/11/2013 6:53:59 PM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: Chode

MotoGP @ COTA on Sunday too.


5 posted on 04/11/2013 6:54:40 PM PDT by nascarnation (Baraq's economic policy: trickle up poverty)
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To: Chode

Prease to pronounce collectry: 2013 FOLMURA 1 UBS CHINESE GLAND PLEE - RIVE THLEAD


6 posted on 04/11/2013 6:57:55 PM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: jeffc

These guys are one component in a multimillion dollar racing enterprise.

One mistake between teammates, as we’ve seen before, will cost the team millions of dollars.

I appreciate competition, but I reject arrogance. Still, you can’t race at that level without arrogance...

I read today that Button wondered why they would be issuing team orders so early in the season. A good point.

So far, an interesting season, no?

Oh, and any idea if Varsha will be leading the broadcast team? The other guy is AN IDIOT!!!


7 posted on 04/11/2013 7:09:18 PM PDT by FatherFig1o155 (Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.)
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To: Chode
Flow Visualization Paint or Flow-Viz

McLaren using Flow-Viz paint at preseason testing at Jerez 2011

McLaren using Flow-Viz paint at preseason testing at Jerez 2011

 

When McLaren ran “Flow-Viz” paint for first time on their car in testing last year (2010), the F1 world sees it for the first time.  But in fact, teams have been using this solution for years in privacy of their wind tunnels to show surface aerodynamic flows, but this year (2011) even Renault, Lotus, Red Bull  and Ferrari bring it to the track and start to use it openly and a large amount of green, blue or white fluid was splattered all over the cars.

McLaren using Flow-Viz on airscoop at preseason testing at Jerez 2011

But there is no mystery. That was a special liquid placed onto the car to help with the aerodynamics. Engineers know that work in wind tunnel and CFD programs can give you great results, but nothing can compare with real life situation on track. To better understand air flow over aero surfaces in this real life situation, teams employ what is call „Flow-Viz“ paint, or „Flow-Visualization“ paint. Details like direction and attached\non-attached flow can be observed.  But this is only surface airflow and this is not the entire story when it comes to aerodynamics, so “Flow Viz” is only one solution for measuring and observing aero on track.

 

McLaren engeneer applying Flow-Viz paint

McLaren engineer applying Flow-Viz paint on front wing

 

Basically, they put it on, and before it gets chance to dry the car is flying around the circuit.  As it does so, the air flow across the car moves the paint around, where it subsequently dries and shows detailed air flow patterns across the car.  It is to confirm wind tunnel and CFD findings. Formula 1 teams don't like to use this method very often because in this way all other teams can see real situation on your bodywork air flow management. If team have a problem with aerodynamic components, everybody will se it, if there is some secret solution in airflow management, everybody will know it. It's enough to take photos of ones car and analyze it with your aerodynamicist and here you are. Basically, my opinion is that if team resorting to flow visualization paint so openly and in front of so many spying eyes leads me to think they're really having some problems with their aero, or there is some fundamental work to be done for further understanding in aero development.

McLaren during F-Duct testing 2010
McLaren during F-Duct testing 2010. You can clearly see slot in rear wing flap on picture above, and air streams around it.

But what is this paint?

Paraffin-based light solution applied it to the car. The solution is light enough to flow over the car, drying quickly to determine the airflow over the bodywork.
Renault F1 team with Flow-Viz at testing 2011A surface of a component of the car is coated with a pigmented (preferably a contrasting phthalocyanine) or transparent oil based paint of non-gelling characteristics, and with a specific viscosity chosen in way that paint will not spill or move when car is stationary. Sometime, if team need to make longer stint with “Flow-Viz” applied, they can apply additional layer of wetting agent to prevent to fast drying of paint. Particles of a dry phthalocyanine dye are then uniformly sprinkled onto the coating of the paint using a dry brush or an air blower depending on the accessibility of the surfaces under test. Dye particles must be soluble in the oil based paint. Optionally, wetting agent such as Linolic Acid can be applied to ensure cohesion of the oil based paint and dye. After that you need to pass an air flow over the component, mean, you go out and drive your car.Renault F1 2010 with Flow-Viz paint As a flow of air is passed over the solid component, this causes the dye particles to move across the coating of the paint under the influence of the air flow. The dye particles that come into contact with the coating of the paint, dissolve in the same time in the oil as they are moved, to leave a trail on the surface of the coating. This results in a reduction in the size of the particles due to their dissolution. Air flow produces a pattern of contrasting trails on the surface of the coating which permanently records and highlights the fluid flow distribution pattern for later analysis. Comparison of the relative movements of the dye particles provides an indication of the relative strengths of the air flow acting on the surfaces of the component under test. Aerodynamicist can see the contours drawn by the oil on the side-wall of rear wing support or wing element itself. The intense stripes of colored oil behind the wing cascade indicate the zones in which the velocity is higher.

 

Flow-Viz paint test inside Wind Tunnel

 

This happens because the oil, coming from upstream, is feeding the wing element section downstream. In this case the zones painted with a thinner layer of oil represent the zone of lower velocity and the wakes. The clean zone on the forward part of the suction side of the airfoils shows the effect of velocity gradient on the paint path. There the flow accelerates strongly and has an intense transversal component. It is possible to see that, in between the two airfoils, the main stripe of oil draws very clearly the air path.

Looking at the oil stripes on tested elements it is possible to see if they follow trajectory in accordance with the CFD simulations or wind tunnel test.

McLaren 2010 with Flow-Viz paint during F-Duct test

Picture down was taken on Saturday morning practice at Korean Grand Prix 2011 as Ferrari tested its new front wing planed for next season, with a load of aero paint sprayed over it.

Ferrari with flov vis paint at Korea GP 2011

8 posted on 04/11/2013 7:14:43 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: jeffc
100%
9 posted on 04/11/2013 7:16:10 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: central_va
LOL!!!
10 posted on 04/11/2013 7:16:47 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: jeffc
watching P1 on VIPTV right now
11 posted on 04/11/2013 7:18:45 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: nascarnation
are you working the race?
12 posted on 04/11/2013 7:21:12 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: FatherFig1o155
Can't find anything about Varsha. The new guy is rather annoying. I just find Varsha 'folksy" (in a good way).

also, here is a link to NBCSN list of all the F1 races this season with boradcast time and channel.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/51040773/ns/sports-motor_sports/

13 posted on 04/11/2013 7:27:12 PM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: Chode

No reason for team orders if they are not going to be followed!


14 posted on 04/12/2013 3:39:10 AM PDT by Lockbox
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To: Lockbox
pretty much...
15 posted on 04/12/2013 5:00:54 AM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: FatherFig1o155; jeffc

I think we’re stuck with Leigh Diffey again, and he is an idiot. Being an Aussie, all we’ll hear about is the greatness of “Mawk Webbuh” as he loses four spots at the start of the race.

Varsha is much better and yes, it’s because he’s so “folksy.” Varsha makes the broadcast sound like he, Matchett and Hobbs are in your living room watching with you. And he gets Matchett and Hobbs to open up and they can really be funny. Diffey, I should call him “Stiffey,” is too much a stuffed shirt and he won’t get the other guys to open up and have some fun.


16 posted on 04/12/2013 5:16:22 AM PDT by henkster (I have one more cow than my neighbor. I am a kulak.)
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To: henkster

I agree with all your points and LOLed at the Webber comment.

I’ve also noticed that NBC makes the boys wear ties.

That’s gotta stiffen them up a bit as well...


17 posted on 04/12/2013 6:03:38 AM PDT by FatherFig1o155 (Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason.)
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To: FatherFig1o155

After a flawless Red Bull 2 second pitstop, Diffey won’t get Matchett to say “And that, Force India, is how you do a pit stop.”


18 posted on 04/12/2013 6:59:04 AM PDT by henkster (I have one more cow than my neighbor. I am a kulak.)
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To: Chode

these guys are at the Glen this weekend...

http://www.chumpcar.com/index.php


19 posted on 04/12/2013 9:04:19 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Chode

2013 FORMULA 1 UBS CHINESE GRAND PRIX

Pos No Driver Team Q1 Q2 Q3 Laps
1 10 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1:35.793 1:35.078 1:34.484 9
2 7 Kimi Räikkönen Lotus-Renault 1:37.046 1:35.659 1:34.761 11
3 3 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1:36.253 1:35.148 1:34.788 12
4 9 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1:35.959 1:35.537 1:34.861 9
5 4 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:35.972 1:35.403 1:34.933 12
6 8 Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 1:36.929 1:36.065 1:35.364 9
7 19 Daniel Ricciardo STR-Ferrari 1:36.993 1:36.258 1:35.998 15
8 5 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1:36.667 1:35.784 2:05.673 12
9 1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing-Renault 1:36.537 1:35.343 No time 13
10 11 Nico Hulkenberg Sauber-Ferrari 1:36.985 1:36.261 No time 11
11 14 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1:37.478 1:36.287 9
12 6 Sergio Perez McLaren-Mercedes 1:36.952 1:36.314 10
13 15 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:37.349 1:36.405 11
DSQ 2 Mark Webber Red Bull Racing-Renault 1:36.148 1:36.679 6
15 16 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault 1:37.281 1:37.139 10
16 18 Jean-Eric Vergne STR-Ferrari 1:37.508 1:37.199 12
17 17 Valtteri Bottas Williams-Renault 1:37.769 3
18 12 Esteban Gutierrez Sauber-Ferrari 1:37.990 5
19 22 Jules Bianchi Marussia-Cosworth 1:38.780 6
20 23 Max Chilton Marussia-Cosworth 1:39.537 3
21 20 Charles Pic Caterham-Renault 1:39.614 6
22 21 Giedo van der Garde Caterham-Renault 1:39.660 6
Q1 107% Time 1:42.498

20 posted on 04/13/2013 7:22:28 AM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Chode

It will be interesting to see how Vettel’s tire strategy plays out.


21 posted on 04/13/2013 6:56:03 PM PDT by henkster (I have one more cow than my neighbor. I am a kulak.)
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To: henkster
yup, and you KNOW Webber will be on a mission...
22 posted on 04/13/2013 7:06:21 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Chode
Susie Wolff fancies herself as an F1 driver, at 33... please, that'd make her older than all but a handful of driver that have been driving F1 for years! feh
23 posted on 04/13/2013 7:17:02 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Chode

2013 FORMULA 1 UBS CHINESE GRAND PRIX

Pos No Driver Team Laps Time/Retired Grid Pts
1 3 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 56 1:36:26.945 3 25
2 7 Kimi Räikkönen Lotus-Renault 56 +10.1 secs 2 18
3 10 Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 56 +12.3 secs 1 15
4 1 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull Racing-Renault 56 +12.5 secs 9 12
5 5 Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 56 +35.2 secs 8 10
6 4 Felipe Massa Ferrari 56 +40.8 secs 5 8
7 19 Daniel Ricciardo STR-Ferrari 56 +42.6 secs 7 6
8 14 Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 56 +51.0 secs 11 4
9 8 Romain Grosjean Lotus-Renault 56 +53.4 secs 6 2
10 11 Nico Hulkenberg Sauber-Ferrari 56 +56.5 secs 10 1
11 6 Sergio Perez McLaren-Mercedes 56 +63.8 secs 12
12 18 Jean-Eric Vergne STR-Ferrari 56 +72.6 secs 15
13 17 Valtteri Bottas Williams-Renault 56 +93.8 secs 16
14 16 Pastor Maldonado Williams-Renault 56 +95.4 secs 14
15 22 Jules Bianchi Marussia-Cosworth 55 +1 Lap 18
16 20 Charles Pic Caterham-Renault 55 +1 Lap 20
17 23 Max Chilton Marussia-Cosworth 55 +1 Lap 19
18 21 Giedo van der Garde Caterham-Renault 55 +1 Lap 21
Ret 9 Nico Rosberg Mercedes 21 Suspension 4
Ret 2 Mark Webber Red Bull Racing-Renault 15 Wheel 22
Ret 15 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 5 Accident 13
Ret 12 Esteban Gutierrez Sauber-Ferrari 4 Accident 17

24 posted on 04/14/2013 8:43:02 AM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Chode
What I think this race proves is that F1 needs a new tire supplier. I just don't think Pirelli is up to the task. I think the rules need to be adjusted. The limited set of tires the teams are allowed to use is just plain ridiculous. Let the teams use whatever tire compound they want to use and forget this must-use-both-compounds-in-each-race junk.

Good race strategy by Ferrari and Alonso, not so great on RB although Vettel almost had a podium. I kept telling him to pit, but he pitted too late (I guess he couldn't hear me through the TV yelling at him to pit.....). Lewis was really pushing on that last corner, I'm glad he didn't lose it and he hung on for third.

25 posted on 04/14/2013 11:20:37 AM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: jeffc
100% and i can't believe Seb stayed out that long either

i heard something about the teams getting an extra set of practice tires from now on though

26 posted on 04/14/2013 11:31:52 AM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Chode
i heard something about the teams getting an extra set of practice tires from now on though

Jeeez, I hope so. Tires are (relatively) cheap (for F1 teams) and limiting their number per race just doesn't save a lot of money.

27 posted on 04/14/2013 12:25:31 PM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: jeffc
i heard some post race talking heads mention it
28 posted on 04/14/2013 12:32:53 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Chode

Just finished watching the dvr of the race. I can’t say I counted all of the top 5 DRS passes, but my rough guess is maybe 6. On none of them did the car that was passed use the DRS in the next zone or next lap to regain their position. I did see Button deploy it once after he was passed, but could not overtake.

As I suspected, most of the time the car that passes with DRS checks out, as they are the superior car anyway.

I will admit that at Shanghai, with that long straight, if the car behind deploys the DRS, the driver in front is a sitting duck.


29 posted on 04/14/2013 8:03:46 PM PDT by henkster (I have one more cow than my neighbor. I am a kulak.)
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To: henkster
thx for the count, i thought i head Coulthard say something about rules stating you cannot repass with DRS in the same zone??? did you hear that too?
30 posted on 04/14/2013 8:10:28 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Chode

I don’t think you can re-pass with DRS in the same zone because if you don’t activate it in the detection zone, you can’t use it for the deployment zone. So the car in front would never use it for that zone. However, in some of the modern tracks like Malaysia and China you have two zones very close together. The car that was passed in zone 1 can deploy in zone 2. I saw that happen with Button once this weekend, but he was not able to make the pass in zone 2.

In Malaysia, it looked like drivers were deliberately not deploying in zone 1 and waiting to do so in zone 2 so as not to have that happen.


31 posted on 04/15/2013 5:13:22 AM PDT by henkster (I have one more cow than my neighbor. I am a kulak.)
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To: henkster
see that's why i don't like the rules the way they stand, why would they make that rule if it wasn't to stop the car being passed regaining his position?

and yeah i saw what happened to Button

if you are in the zone and behind i think you should be able to use DRS otherwise it's an inequitable gift to the passing car

why not just blueflag the car in front and be done with it, it's just not racing to me to give advantage to a passing car that the car being passed has option to use...

32 posted on 04/15/2013 6:48:47 AM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: Chode

Well I look at it differently. I don’t see it as an inequitable gift to the passing car, I see it as a means of getting slower cars out of the way and letting the best machines race each other. How many times in past years did we see this: some guy is in 4th, because of a pit sequence or lucky qualifying run, but he cannot keep pace with the leaders and is losing a half second per lap. Five cars are faster than he is, but they are stacked up behind because they are not so much better they can pass easily. They, too, are losing a half second per lap and their chances of a podium are toast. There is no way pit or tire strategies can make up the time they lost on the track because of being stuck in line.

With DRS, they make the pass, check out on the slower car, and the race is on to catch the leaders. Without DRS, Vettel doesn’t get out of 8th after his last stop and he’s stuck sniffing Hulkenberg’s exhaust for the last 7 laps instead of storming to within a few car lengths of a podium.

I go back to my original point about DRS; if it were an “unfair” advantage to the hunter, he would then become the hunted to the same car on the next lap. It almost never happens. His car has to be the better machine just to get within one second in the DRS detection zone. Once he makes the pass, in the next two laps he proves it because the trailing car never gets within that one second window again unless the pit sequence and tire strategies make it possible.


33 posted on 04/15/2013 7:49:09 AM PDT by henkster (I have one more cow than my neighbor. I am a kulak.)
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To: henkster
i know, it's just me... i guess i am just more comfortable with a slower driver getting the blue flag if they are holding up faster drivers
34 posted on 04/15/2013 5:18:01 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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