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To: dfwgator
I read somewhere that someone called World War II ‘World war - eleven’.

There was a planned invasion, Operation downfall, of Japan scheduled for Nov 1st 1945 would have cost around 1 million Japanese lives and about 350,000 US casualties.

3 posted on 08/10/2012 11:12:42 AM PDT by Perdogg (Let's leave reading things in the Constitution that aren't there to liberals and Dems)
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To: Perdogg
There was a planned invasion, Operation downfall, of Japan scheduled for Nov 1st 1945 would have cost around 1 million Japanese lives and about 350,000 US casualties

And the Soviets were prepared to invade from the North, and take their share of Japan.

4 posted on 08/10/2012 11:15:21 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: All
Excellent book on the end of the war and the need to drop the atomic bombs on Japan:

Amazon link:

Downfall

Here is an excerpt from an article Richard B. Frank wrote for the Weekly Standard. Well worth reading:

...right to the very end, the Japanese pursued twin goals: not only the preservation of the imperial system, but also preservation of the old order in Japan that had launched a war of aggression that killed 17 million.

This brings us to another aspect of history that now very belatedly has entered the controversy. Several American historians led by Robert Newman have insisted vigorously that any assessment of the end of the Pacific war must include the horrifying consequences of each continued day of the war for the Asian populations trapped within Japan's conquests. Newman calculates that between a quarter million and 400,000 Asians, overwhelmingly noncombatants, were dying each month the war continued. Newman et al. challenge whether an assessment of Truman's decision can highlight only the deaths of noncombatant civilians in the aggressor nation while ignoring much larger death tolls among noncombatant civilians in the victim nations.

There are a good many more points that now extend our understanding beyond the debates of 1995. But it is clear that all three of the critics' central premises are wrong. The Japanese did not see their situation as catastrophically hopeless. They were not seeking to surrender, but pursuing a negotiated end to the war that preserved the old order in Japan, not just a figurehead emperor. Finally, thanks to radio intelligence, American leaders, far from knowing that peace was at hand, understood--as one analytical piece in the "Magic" Far East Summary stated in July 1945, after a review of both the military and diplomatic intercepts--that "until the Japanese leaders realize that an invasion can not be repelled, there is little likelihood that they will accept any peace terms satisfactory to the Allies." This cannot be improved upon as a succinct and accurate summary of the military and diplomatic realities of the summer of 1945.

The displacement of the so-called traditionalist view within important segments of American opinion took several decades to accomplish. It will take a similar span of time to displace the critical orthodoxy that arose in the 1960s and prevailed roughly through the 1980s, and replace it with a richer appreciation for the realities of 1945. But the clock is ticking.


8 posted on 08/10/2012 11:21:57 AM PDT by BushMeister ("We are a nation that has a government - not the other way around." --Ronald Reagan)
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To: Perdogg

I once interviewed Gen Henry ‘Butch’ Muller who was one of
the chief planners of the Los Banos Raid as intel off. of the
11th AB in the Philippines. By the end of the War he was Asst
Intel Off for the whole 8th Army and his job was to analyse
casualty projections resulting from an invasion of Japan. I
asked what he had estimated for the 8th Army alone. Without
batting an eye he stated 90,000 casualties.


9 posted on 08/10/2012 11:35:18 AM PDT by Sivad (Nor Cal Red Turf)
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