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To: decimon
IIRC, the site at Messines ( where the big explosion occured) still today bears the depression/crater.

Many don't know it, but today it is literally possible to walk from the Swiss border to the English channel, and follow the trench lines. It is incomprehensible to realizie that millions died, over several years, for a few miles of terrain.

I toured Verdun, and some of the other Somme sites in the early 70's, while I was stationed overseas. To look at the momuments, with the endless lists of the dead..it is humbling experience. It makes D-Day, and the American military cemetary, look like a minor skirmish.

Prior to that experience, I'd always failed to understand how the Brits allowed Hitler to come to power, when he could have been stopped early on quite easily. I used to ridicule Chamberlain's "peace in our time."

Once you realize that the Brits lost the better part of an entire generation in WW I, it gives context to their actions up till the outbreak of the 2nd WW.

9 posted on 06/10/2011 10:23:51 AM PDT by ken5050 (Save the Earth..It's the only planet with chocolate!!!)
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To: ken5050
Along those lines, people have written books about how the notion of manliness suffered in Britain and France immediately after WWI. The 1920's saw a younger generation of "bright young things" and a much greater acceptance of homosexuality. A generation of real men had been lost and culturally, Britain (and France) had a greatly reduced willingness to be manly and risk doing it again.

What is remarkable to me is that Germany does not seem to have had quite the same experience. They lost WWI but (perhaps because they felt "stabbed in the back") they were almost eager to do it all over again. They still had an aggressive spirit.

But after WWII you can see that all of Europe became pacifist. They don't want to fight anymore: twice was enough. Of course, they still can fight -- the men that they have are good quality and can get the job done -- but overall, as societies, they are not manly and do not relish the thought of combat.

America has held on to the tradition a lot better, but we too are certainly not the men we used to be. I think Vietnam did to us was WWI and WWII did not.

15 posted on 06/10/2011 10:36:07 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (The USSR spent itself into bankruptcy and collapsed -- and aren't we on the same path now?)
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To: ken5050
It is incomprehensible to realizie that millions died, over several years, for a few miles of terrain.

I agree. Easy to write about and beyond imagining.

Prior to that experience, I'd always failed to understand how the Brits allowed Hitler to come to power, when he could have been stopped early on quite easily. I used to ridicule Chamberlain's "peace in our time."

Once you realize that the Brits lost the better part of an entire generation in WW I, it gives context to their actions up till the outbreak of the 2nd WW.

And the much maligned French.

21 posted on 06/10/2011 11:02:45 AM PDT by decimon
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To: ken5050
I toured Verdun, and some of the other Somme sites in the early 70's, while I was stationed overseas. To look at the momuments, with the endless lists of the dead..it is humbling experience. It makes D-Day, and the American military cemetary, look like a minor skirmish.

Prior to that experience, I'd always failed to understand how the Brits allowed Hitler to come to power, when he could have been stopped early on quite easily. I used to ridicule Chamberlain's "peace in our time."

Once you realize that the Brits lost the better part of an entire generation in WW I, it gives context to their actions up till the outbreak of the 2nd WW.

I've also found it easy to laugh at jokes about used French military rifles from WWII being "almost new; only dropped once", or referring to "surrender monkeys."

However, I believe the French suffered casualties rivaling the English. An entire generation of brave men disappeared. I think this had something to do with French attitude to WWII, and that we may still see the effects in pacifist Europe today of the loss of almost an entire generation of brave fathers, brothers, husbands, and uncles during WWI.

27 posted on 06/10/2011 11:20:56 AM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.)
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To: ken5050
To look at the momuments, with the endless lists of the dead..it is humbling experience. It makes D-Day, and the American military cemetary, look like a minor skirmish.

The first day of the First Battle of the Somme the Brits lost over 19,000 dead and took 35,000 casualties. Adjusting for population sizes that would be the equivalent of the present day US loosing 125,000 dead and taking 225,000 casualties - in one day.

48 posted on 06/10/2011 12:33:15 PM PDT by Timocrat (Ingnorantia non excusat)
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