Posted on 02/28/2011 8:20:01 AM PST by Colofornian
The insanity trial of admitted killer Christopher A. Gribble begins Monday with the selection of jurors who will decide whether Gribble was legally insane when he and Steven Spader slaughtered a Mont Vernon mother and maimed her daughter during a random 2009 home invasion.
His trial in Hillsborough County Superior Court likely will differ from that of his machete-wielding accomplice Spader, found guilty by a jury Nov. 9 of all six counts of first-degree murder, attempted murder and related charges.
Gribble, a Brookline Eagle Scout, admitted he stabbed and slashed local nurse Kimberly L. Cates, 42, to death with a knife and nearly killed her daughter, Jaimie, then 11, in the pre-dawn attack, but claimed he was insane at the time and not criminally responsible.
Gribble's public defenders, Donna J. Brown and Matthew E. Hill, must prove by clear and convincing evidence that Gribble suffered from a mental disease or defect at the time of the Oct. 4, 2009, home invasion and his actions were the result of that defect.
Since Gribble admitted to the crimes and opted out of a trial on his guilt or innocence, jurors may not hear the same degree of disturbing testimony presented at Spader's trial -- detailed accounts of the terrifying attack and graphic descriptions of the 50 wounds inflicted on Cates and her daughter, some cutting through bone and partially amputating Jaimie Cates' foot.
This jury's sole job will be to decide whether insanity drove Gribble to commit the crimes. Prospective jurors
Jurors will hear from a number of state and defense expert witnesses testifying to Gribble's psychiatric condition.
While the defense has not disclosed Gribble's alleged mental disease, Gribble told the court Dec. 6 he was diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder and briefly took Prozac to treat it in 2007. He said he had not been diagnosed with any other psychiatric condition.
Since Gribble's confession was ruled admissible at trial, jurors also likely will get a glimpse into Gribble's demeanor and state of mind at the time of the attack. A state police investigator said a polite, cooperative and engaging Gribble calmly described the thrill-kill home invasion, described himself and Spader as "sociopaths," then led police to the spot where he and Spader buried the machete and knife.
The court sent out 1,000 questionnaires to prospective jurors and received more than 400 responses, judiciary branch spokeswoman Laura Kiernan said. Jurors will be called to court in large panels today and Tuesday for preliminary instructions and screening. Individual questioning of potential jurors begins Wednesday and is expected to continue at least through the end of the week until 16 jurors are seated.
Trial is tentatively set to begin with opening arguments and testimony March 9, Kiernan said. It is not yet known if jurors will view the crime scene. Testimony is expected to last nine days, Kiernan said. Eagle Scout, Cadet
Gribble is a high school graduate who grew up a devout Mormon and attended Sunday school at Spader's next-door neighbor's house. He belonged to the local Boy Scout chapter and achieved the rank of Eagle Scout in 2007. He built a maintenance shed at the Brookline transfer station as his Eagle Scout project.
Gribble also belonged to the U.S. Army Cadet Corps, a nonprofit career program similar to Junior ROTC for teens interested in exposure to a military lifestyle and leadership opportunities, the corps chief of staff Col. Joseph M. Land Sr. said. Gribble was a private 1st Class cadet in the Nashua unit -- where his father, Richard, was a unit officer -- until about 2007 when he failed a leadership course, Land said.
"He was not very successful in that time as evidenced by his lack of promotion and failure to pass the standards of our leadership course," Land said.
"He was a very peculiar young man," the chief of staff of the national organization added. "Some cadets get on my radar because they are either high maintenance or peculiar. He was a very strange young man."
Describing Gribble's father, Richard, as "one of the most pleasant gentlemen you will ever meet," Land said, "This is a case where the apple has fallen far from the tree."
Gribble said he briefly worked at a local Subway sandwich shop in 2008 and 2009 and was doing "odd jobs" at the time of the attack. They included driving Spader to classes at Nashua Community College, a job Spader's father hired him to do, according to court testimony.
The state has more than 75 witnesses on its list. They include Amherst teens Quinn Glover and William Marks, both 19, who helped plan and participated in the home invasion. Neither was charged in connection with the actual attack. Hollis resident Autumn Savoy, 21, who pleaded guilty to helping cover up the crimes, also is on the state's witness list. Glover, Marks and Savoy struck plea deals in which they agreed to testify as state witnesses in exchange for lesser sentences.
From the article: Gribble, a Brookline Eagle Scout, admitted he stabbed and slashed local nurse Kimberly L. Cates, 42, to death with a knife and nearly killed her daughter, Jaimie, then 11...Since Gribble admitted to the crimes and opted out of a trial on his guilt or innocence, jurors may not hear the same degree of disturbing testimony presented at Spader's trial -- detailed accounts of the terrifying attack and graphic descriptions of the 50 wounds inflicted on Cates and her daughter, some cutting through bone and partially amputating Jaimie Cates' foot...Gribble is a high school graduate who grew up a devout Mormon and attended Sunday school at Spader's next-door neighbor's house.
(Before anybody defends Gribble just because he's Mormon, perhaps you could first acknowledge the 50-wound stab-&-slash victims, 42-yo nurse Kimberly L. Cates and her 11-yo daughter, Jaimie...with the daughter barely surviving...that way, you might come across a wee bit more humane vs. hostile)
Well, here ya go. "Authentic" Mormons include original-sin laden people who sin because they're sinners -- and not just because they decided one day to go hog wild on the idea of "free agency."
Original sin people are EVERYBODY, including me. Yet, obviously not "everybody" murders.
Fortunately, the jury will be able to exercise options other than a psychiatric ward for Gribble:
Real, authentic Mormon murderers like...
...Gary Gilmore, Ronnie Lee Gardner, and maybe Butch Cassidy (depending upon which story you believe) were shot.
Sometimes they hang real authentic Mormon murderers (for being a mass child and mommy&daddy murderer) -- Like John D. Lee...
Sometimes they give them a lethal injection -- Like 5-time child killer, ex-Lds missionary-to-Philippines Arthur Gary Bishop...
Or sometimes it's the electric chair, like serial killer-rapist Ted Bundy, a Mormon convert...
But usually it's more often just life sentences...
...Like 5-time Mormon killer Glenn Taylor Helzer...
...Or ex-Lds missionary murderer to Winnipeg Mark Hacking...
...Or bomber-murderer-scammer Mark Hofmann...
(And of course, some Mormon murderers do little to no time...
...Like ex-Lds missionary-to-France fugitive murderer Jason Brown...
...or 19th century murderer Porter Rockwell, one of Brigham Young's and Joseph's Smith's body guards...
...or Wild Bill Hickman, another of Young's body guards, who wrote a "tell-all" book about it...
....Or the dozens to hundreds of Mormon child mass murderers/mommy&daddy mass murderers never even brought to trial for the execution-style Mountain Meadows Massacre...)
These maggots can’t be punished enough to suit me. Je ne givasheet pas what religion he claimed.
I am a Mormon and I acknowledge that there have been Mormon criminals in the past.
Butch Cassidy was one.
All those involved in this killing deserve the death penalty.
“I am a Mormon and I acknowledge that there have been Mormon criminals in the past.”
I am not a believer, but murder just isn’t something LDS teaches is approved. Not by Jesus, Smith, or the Mormon next door.
‘Course, if Ya want religious approval for murder, there is always Islam.
MadMo approves of killing most everyone.
Or perhaps you could respect the victims by not using the death as a personal springboard into a debate about whether Mormons are the correct religion or whether Mormons have criminals among them.
Or whether the story about whether a murderer can be found not guilty because of insanity is a “Religious” article because in one line it mentions he was a Mormon.
Guilt by association is very lame. And I doubt you will get anyone defending this guy’s actions.
I thought this had something to do with Dale Gribble being a moron. Shee-shee-shaw!
I don't know a whole lot about Mormons, but when you have a large group of people, there are bound to be some whackos in it!
Unlike islam that teaches inequality, hate, lying and murder!
Allow me to explain the connection.
It's not simply "guilt by association" -- as Raider Sam claimed; nor does the Mormon mention simply run into the obvious realities of "whackos" who exist in the midst of any and all religious groups.
One of the underlying issues here is who Mormon leaders claim these people to be...the very "identity" of who they claim to be:
(Mormon Identity Claim #1) Those Mormon murderers mentioned in post #2 became part of the Mormon "priesthood" at age 12. That means that instead of being equal to some fringe looney -- say one who happened to be from a RC family -- it's actually more equivalent to us reading a headline that a RC priest butchered somebody. [And it even goes beyond that...see #2 & #3 below]
I could just imagine somebody posting an article about a RC priest butchering someone. And then would we see people rush out right away & pretend they are the public relations arm of the RC church and quickly try to wipe away that this murderer was a RC priest? Would they quickly dismiss the priest's ties to the RC church? Really? Would they try to alter the murderer's identity? (Oh, he wasn't some RC priest; no, he was just a "whacko.")
No. We don't usually see that. It's usually ONLY with Mormon criminals that we see PR advocates rush in via such a manner -- to distance his ID from his acts.
Now. How much "power" and "knowledge" do Mormon leaders accord their "priesthood?"
“…the Melchizedek Priesthood…is the grand head, and holds the highest authority which pertains to the Priesthood, and the keys of the Kingdom of God in all ages of the world to the latest posterity on the earth; and is THE channel through which ALL KNOWLEDGE, DOCTRINE, THE PLAN OF SALVATION AND EVERY IMPORTANT MATTER IS REVEALED FROM HEAVEN.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith pp. 166-167)
My Point is that it's the Mormon church that sets up these men to be so "lofty."
When some extremist fringe person whose family happens to be some religion commits some atrocity, well that's just it: It was usually some extremist fringe person.
Won't you both don't seem to "get" -- because you just don't comprehend Mormon culture or its worldviews -- is that an ex-Lds missionary like a couple of murderers mentioned in post #2...or an Eagle Boy Scout as it pertains to this article...are NOT extremist fringe "whackos" but are in fact, MAINSTREAM Mormons who are supposedly, per Joseph Smith...
...compose "the grand head" of all mankind...
...represent "the highest authority" on earth...
...have access to the "keys" of God's Kingdom...
...& "is THE channel through which ALL KNOWLEDGE, DOCTRINE, THE PLAN OF SALVATION AND EVERY IMPORTANT MATTER IS REVEALED FROM HEAVEN." (Joseph Smith)
What's too "funny" is to see you both rush in -- for example, you McKenzie -- conclude an "identity" exactly opposite of who Mormon leaders have made their followers out to be...as if they held some "whacko" identity all along.
Other Aspects of Mormonism's Lofty claims as to who these murderers are:
* (Mormon Identity Claim #2) Mormon leaders claim their followers are "gods in embryo." Do we all think a "god-in-embryo" would commit such atrocities? Or is it just possible that Mormonism has misidentified who their people are?
* (Mormon Identity Claim #3) Mormons say people are NOT sinners. Oh, yes, they recognize that people sin. But at the root core, no, Mormon leaders reference people as "free agents" who are NOT in bondage to an inherited sin nature.
Therefore, the focus is NOT that because one Mormon is "guilty" of some crime; therefore somehow ALL are guilty.
It's rather that Mormon worldviews are often like fragile eggs -- especially in their anthropology. And their worldviews that these murderous men are "priests" who represent God...that these priests hold the keys to the kingdom of heaven...and God's authority on earth...
Well, excuse me for mentioning that yet more Mormon eggs have hit the ground from their loftiest of positions...
So you do admit that you are using the death of someone to springboard into the wrongness of the Mormon religion. Thanks for clearing that up.
As for the rest:
What the Mormon church did in the past to recognize anyone has no bearing on this case.
As for your “we dont usually see that. Its usually only with Mormon criminals” statement, you offer no proof. In fact, you use 2 generalities leading to a definitive, which is not logical. Who is the “we” you speak of? Its a pretty big group with no definition. What defines usually? Is it a percentage? And how can it be possible to say “usually only”? Usually has no definition and only has exactly one definition.
As for the rest, it just looks like a pre-written script that offers nothing for the discussion.
a devout Mormon
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There are lots of examples of people growing up devoted to a religion and going on to become criminals.
Unbelievable! Personally, I believe you have an unhealthy obsession with this religion.
Hey! While you're at it, why not smear the Boy Scouts as well? With little effort you could find other examples of Eagle Scouts being murderers and being criminally insane.
By the way, I am the **proud** holder of an Eagle Scout mom's pin.
As an Eagle Scout myself, I hate seeing stories like this. But I think most people can differentiate between someone’s actions and a group they belong to.
This is no different than CBS saying that a murderer, who was in the Army at some point, was driven to it because of the Army, without knowing the person at all.
The focus is on how far the fall is...
Have the the "devout" you're referencing...have they been identified by their religious leaders as being "gods-in-embryo"? Have they been identified by their religious leaders as representing a priesthood who is "THE channel through which ALL KNOWLEDGE, DOCTRINE, THE PLAN OF SALVATION AND EVERY IMPORTANT MATTER IS REVEALED FROM HEAVEN???”
Again, absolutely NO distinctions are being made between ...your take of the generic "devoutness" of a religious holder -- which probably describes half of the world or more... ...
and less than 1% of America that these priesthood-gods are identified to be -- which probably constitutes less than .001% of the world!
It would be the same thing as some religion proclaiming to the world...see...look @ these spiritually elite .001% of the world! And then watching them fall!
Tell us, Wintertime. Would your local newspaper & national media outlets make more of a splash over "average devout Joe" Roman Catholic-turned-criminal, or a Roman Catholic priest-turned-criminal. You somehow are under the grand illusion that the media splash should be "equal." What kind of caveman mentality is that?
(Oh, I didn't know that the Boy Scouts of America touted their Eagle Scouts to be impeccable "gods in embryo"...I didn't know that Boy Scout membership = "THE channel through which ALL KNOWLEDGE, DOCTRINE, THE PLAN OF SALVATION AND EVERY IMPORTANT MATTER IS REVEALED FROM HEAVEN”
Simply put: If your leaders elevate you as the spiritual elite of all the earth -- at the level of divinity -- we expect a bit more than from the average "devout religious adherent," wouldn't you say?
To give an extreme example, we would expect more from the Pope, from the Dalai Lama, from a Mother Teresa, than we would from the person who is religiously devout in serving others at your local food bank. Were any of those three to have committed murder, I don't think we'd see your murder advocate apologetics at threads trying to defend any of them as murderers, claiming that their religious identity shouldn't even matter re: the amount of media attention they might receive.
(But, hey, I understand...people are just ignorant about identity claims made by Mormons about their people...and it shows quite well in your comments & Raider Sam's)
(Oh. I just didn't know that some gods-in-embryo commit murder...and some don't. Please elaborate upon how we might know the difference.)
(Boy, worldwide Christianity could only wish crimes against Christians were limited to buildings! Perhaps if Mormons like you didn't have this tremendous self-focused persecution complex, you'd wake up and actually see the dozens of thousands of Christians killed, assaulted, and imprisoned simply due to their Christian identity and actions...that'd cure you pretty quickly of such a complex)
Please do not post to me again. I have given you the courtesy of having had the last word in Post #16.
Wintertime
As long you keep up your cold Wintertime attitude, please do not post my way again. I gave you the courtesy of initiating pings my way (IOW, I didn't come knocking on your door). Should you develop a more sunny disposition, then, of course, initiate another discussion if you so choose.
Colofornian
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