Site for good info debunking 9/11 truthers? (Vanity)

“Belief is the enemy, I would love to, it would be easier not to get guff from bully believers, but until all the math ads up I can’t go to your church.”

Wow, just wow. So, you prefer this fuzzy math to solid evidence and eyewitnesses? Okaaaaaaaaay, if you won’t go to my church it makes me wonder what masjid you go to.

Ok, let's go to church, oh, wait, first let me see any video from one of the hundreds of Pentagon cameras, any?

What? , no still frames even?

Ok, well, then how about the code for friendly that disables the anti-missle defense system?

What about the people sitting on the highway that morning who called to report an airliner crashing into the building? You can’t prove something by a lack of evidence, especially when there is so much concrete evidence of what really happened. I’m not going down this rabbit hole any farther, believe what you want to believe. Some people believe in UFOs, some people believe in the Trilateral Commission, some people believe in Santa Claus.

You can’t prove something by a lack of evidence, I dig Santa, just would like to see Pentagon footage, that's all, oh , and wing mark damage.

Lot's of speed discrepancies, too.

You know, the math.

Also, the bearded one could could hardly drive a car, he could not pull a lovely radio freq. computer controlled curving decent like that, that was good stuff, even for our military(who needed to get rid of tons of evidence).

A handful of Araby party boys living in a hotel near NSA had to have had a little help.

That's usually what happens, children, you see, truth = responibility.

Most little fellers can't handle that.

Screwlooschange is great! But seriously, don’t even bother to try and get in an argument with these troofer nutcases. Hit them with too many facts and full-blown cognitive dissonance kicks in. This has become a religion to them and their articles of faith cannot be refuted, even if you literally show them the evidence that their “facts” are spun out of whole cloth. I seriously, seriously, hate Dylan Avery and his little deserter buddy. After seeing screwlooschange and witnessing all of the instances of gross misrepresentations, quote-mining- cropped pictures, fallacies, and outright lies, you know that there is no way they believe what they have attached their names to. It’s all about the money to them. I seriously call it treason. I mean, if you are producing propaganda for the enemies of this country, you are literally providing aid to the enemy.

136 witnesses saw a PLANE hit the penatgon. A couple of them were pilots and correctly identifies it as a Boeing 757. Most of the witnesses identified it as an American Airlines jet. One guy saw it fly right over his car, and the tail section clipped an overhead highway sign right above him. One witness who was walking towards the Pentagon and had to hit the deck, swearing that if he didn’t, the plane would have taken his head off.
Apparently, a lot of this came from Donald Rumsfeld referring to the plane as a “missile” in an interview for Parade Magazine a couple weeks after the attack. The rest of it came from some Frenchy who wrote a book or something and only showed the smaller hole made by the landing gear and not the gaping hole in the front of the building which matches the size of a 757 fuselage. Problem with the “troof” movement is that there is no fact checker or minimal publishing standards on the internet. There are miss-statement and outright lies that were debunked years ago that are still being presented as fact.
The problem with the video shot at the Pentagon was that it was shooting at 1 fr/sec (not gonna catch much when a plane is flying past the camera at 540 mph). On the contrary, the employees at the Doubletree watched their video “Over and over again” before the FBI came to take it as evidence. “We all saw a plane.”

Okay, riddle me this. How does a missile knock over 7 light poles and knock a LARGE generator off its spot before knocking a large hole in a building, leaving all kind of aircraft parts all over the crash site? If you believe that a guy with 250 hours of flight time can’t make this maneuver (The full quote from the air traffic controller (which is cropped for convenience in loosechange) was “The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane,” says O’Brien. “You don’t fly a 757 in that manner. It’s unsafe.”). Obviously, Hanjour was not worried about safety, since he was on a suicide mission. This has also been reproduced in Microsoft Flight Simulator (the industry standard for pilots).

“massive controlled thermite reaction”

Ok, first off, there is nothing “controlled” about a thermite reaction. It’s not an explosive, it’s an incendiary. In military applications, it’s used to destroy equipment (artillery, computers, etc) to keep the enemies from using it in the event troops have to bug out in a hurry. Thermite is a horrible choice for controlled demolition. First off, it cannot burn sideways (this has been tested, even by troofer “scientists”). It is, like I said, an incendiary, not an explosive. It slowly burns through metal, it does not blow it up. In CD, you need precisely timed explosions (boom!, not sizzle) for it to work. The “thermite” evidence has never been verified by a non-troofer scientist (his “peer-reviewed” study did not pass even the cursory muster of a real peer review). One of the by-products found in the tests that “proved” thermite is sulphur. Sulphur is also used in sheetrock, so it makes sense that sulphur was found. The problem with troofers is that they put people in a position of proving a negative (that’s not how it works, or else, when you go to trial, the burden of proof would be on the defense, not the prosecution). The other problem is that there is no fact-check, so lies, rumors, distortions, and misconceptions (honest mistakes by well-meaning people), errant early news reports (first impressions in a chaotic situation are often wrong) make it into their belief system with no one to correct them. When faced with proof to the contrary, they often resort to ad-hominem. One of the delicious ironies is that they call people Nazis (this has happened to me repeatedly). One particularly butt-hurt european troofer called me a nazi because I wouldn’t say that the nazis were a right-wing organization (have no idea what this has to do with 9/11, but I digress). Back to the delicious irony...one of the big sources they use is the American Free Press, which is run by (and this is all on-record) a neo-nazi, anti-semite, holocaust denier. The lesson learned? Always consider the source. When one of the big proponents of the troof movement (David Ickes) shows himself to be a barking moonbat by telling people that the world is run by shape-shifting lizard people who need to drink human blood to survive (he even put out videos on youtube where he discusses this with a straight face), you have to discount just about everything he says because, well, he’s nuts. Even Alex Jones (supreme barking moonbat) has disavowed the guy. When someone purports to have the monopoly on truth, check to see if he’s wearing a tin-foil hat.

Elevator techs. Okay, this is something I know about personally. My best friend was an elevator tech for about 2 years (install, troubleshoot, repair). There is a lot that needs to be done (elevators in the US have to pass a rigorous inspection every year...that’s why they are so safe and reliable), especially when there were 95 elevators in the two buildings. It was probably some kind of periodic preventive maintenance (lubricate, inspect, check that all the controls and fail-safe devices work). It would make sense that they were there for a while. It’s a big job. Let’s look at controlled demolition scenario. To set up a CD on a 30 story empty building with crews working full-time, it takes on the order of 4 MONTHS. This includes rigging steel cable, det cord, explosives, and cutting some of the structural members. Given that this was being done in secret in 2 buildings that are over 3 times this size (and WTC 7, too, of course, which was 47 stories)without making any kind of noticeable mess and no one seeing you and saying “WTF are you doing?!”, it would take about 3 or 4 years to set it all up (haha! that means it was CLINTON!). How can a crew which obviously wasn’t hired from any of the few CD companies in the US do this in record time, when there were bomb-sniffing dogs in the building until the day before the attack? Sorry, it doesn’t pass muster. Besides, experts have determined that even if thermite would work as a CD agent (and it won’t, as I have explained before), it would take approximately 12 U.S. TONS (approx. 10,000 kg) of thermite to cut the necessary structural members in either of the towers.
They were brought down in a pancake collapse caused by severe structural damage from the impact of huge airliners loaded with thousands of gallons of jet fuel burning tons of paper, computers, and office funiture. What is so hard to believe about that? When trusses fail, they fail rapidly and violently (firefighters hate fighting fires in trussed structures for this very reason...they say “Don’t trust the truss”). All things considered, I think it was a miracle that the buildings stood as long as they did. When the towers were designed, they were theoretically able to withstand the impact of a 707 (largest passenger airliner at the time). The scenario that was imagined was a jetliner low on fuel and lost in fog on the approach (traveling at approach velocity) to LaGuardia Airport, not a much larger, fully fueled jetliner being piloted by a homicidal/suicidal maniac traveling at full throttle for an intentional direct hit. Sometimes the most simple answer is the correct one. the scenario imagined by troofers requires huge leaps of faith and no one talking about it. Hell, Watergate involved how few people, and someone still talked. Where is the 9/11 “Deepthroat?” There would have to be literally a thousand people involved in this scenario. No one has talked yet, and, given human nature, that is nearly impossible. You might was well believe it was done by faeries or Jeebus. And THESE are the people who have the temerity to call themselves SKEPTICS while calling the rest of us SHEEPLE.

Haha good posts, I enjoyed them.

I’ve never understood how people can become so entrenched in their own world view to reject mountains of evidence contrary to their opinions. It’s truly a rejection of the value of truth.

Thank for all your time and effort, quite convincing.

All I'm saying is that as far back as the Spainish-American War America has never trusted it's "enemies' to do the job alone.

Well, the sinking of the Maine was a misunderstanding. For years it was thought that it hit a mine, but it turned out it was probably a small fire in the magazine. The sinking of the Lusitania was technically justified since it was also carrying munitions and weapons in violation of the neutrality agreement. WWII, perfectly justified. Korea, perfectly justified under the UN. Vietnam....Gulf of Tonkin (ok. according to what the gov’t has released, that was iffy at best). Iraq I, justified under the UN. Afghanistan, perfectly justified (it was almost Afghanistan and Pakistan, but Musharref decided it was in his best interest to cooperate with us). Iraq II, that was justified in that they were in violation of several UN sanctions and resolutions (but the UN wasn’t interested in enforcing their own mandate...also, maybe sadaam was trolling us, but screw him. He tried to assassinate GHWB, so he was fair game).

See, that's all I'm saying, let's be honest, we're all in it together.

War, it's good business for everyone.