Posted on 03/15/2010 10:08:18 AM PDT by bubbacluck
To this point, 37 states have taken up legislation to essentially resurrect the nullification doctrine and void the enforcement of the blatantly unconstitutional individual mandate should ObamaCare pass.
It’s been a long time since three-fourths of the states in this country have been on the same page regarding anything, much less such a critical issue.
Yes, the spirit of the South is rising again, but this time it’s different. This time it’s all over the country.
This, to me, is the original point; this is why I posted this article/blog.
The "legal logic" of the Dred Scott decision (I use the term loosely) would apply just about as well to a state as a territory.
slavery was legal, alive and well in the northern states already
Nope. The slave states extending farthest north were MO and VA. Neither was ever called a "northern state," as far as I know.
When the Deep South seceded, there were 8 border states remaining in the Union. The first part of 1861 was a struggle between USA and CSA for the allegiance of these states. In the end, they were split more or less in half. Four went with USA, four with CSA, and a new state split off from VA.
But it's really kind of dumb to refer to any of these states as "northern." Union, sure, but not northern.
The importation of slaves had been prohibited in the US since 1807, the first year allowed by the Constitution.
The CSA prohibiting importation of slaves wasn't much of a sacrifice, as the Royal Navy wouldn't have allowed them to do so anyway.
Voluntary only. What is so bad about allowing this option to freed slaves? As it turned out very few were interested.
BTW, RE Lee was also a big fan of colonization. Does that make him wicked person in your eyes?
And,
There were 15 slave states in 1860: Missouri, Maryland, Delaware, Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia. When the Confederacy was first formed in Montgomery, AL, there were only 7 states, all slave states, that comprised it. 8 slave states stood outside. Four more states joined the Confederacy after the attack on Fort Sumter, Virginia, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Arkansas. The Confederate flag had 13 stars, recognizing Confederate claims to Kentucky and Missouri.
Sorry, I don’t have time for special nees Freepers today. Here is a cut and past from the President and V.P. of the Confederacy.
I’ll tak their word over your revisionsim.
Take care and good luck.
The civil war was about slavery. Sorry. The Confederacy was based on it and so was the Southern economy. You cannot rewrite history no matter how much you want to. This effort started at the end of the war and I was shocked to find it still going on today. So for this pathetic revisionism, that rears it’s ugly head here occaisionally, I will enshrine the following from the message to the Confederate Congress April 29th 1861 from Jefferson Davis:
” As soon as the Northern States that prohibited African slavery within their limits had reached a number sufficient to give their representation a controlling voice in the Congress, a persistent and organized system of hostile measures against the rights of the owners of slaves in the Southern States was inaugurated and gradually extended. A continuous series of measures was devised and prosecuted for the purpose of rendering insecure the tenure of property in slaves... Senators and Representatives were sent to the common councils of the nation, whose chief title to this distinction consisted in the display of a spirit of ultra-fanaticicsm and whose business was... to awaken the bitterest hatred against the citizens of sister states, by violent deunciation of their institutions; the transaction of public affairs was impeded by repeated efforts to usurp pairing the security of property in slaves, and reducing those States which held slaves to a condition of inferiority. Finally a great party was organized for the purpose of obtaining the administration of the Government, which the avowed object of using its power for the total exclusion of the slave States from all participation in the benefits of the public comain acquired by all the States in common, whether by conquest or purchase; of surrounding them entirely by States in which slavery should be prohibited; of thus rendering the property in slaves so insecure as to be comparatively worthless, and thereby annihilating in effect property worth thousands of millions of dollars. This party, thus organized, succeeded in the month of November last in the election of its candidate for the Presidency of the United States. In the meantime the African slaves had augmented in number from about 600,000 at the date of the adoption of the constitutional compact to upward of 4,000,000. In moral and social condition they had been elevated from brutal savages into docile, intelligent, and civilized agricultural laborers, and supplied not only with bodily comforts but with careful religious instruction. Under the supervision of a superior race, their labor had been so directed as not only to allow a gradual and marked amelioration of thier own condition, but to convert hundreds of thourands of squrare miles of the wilderness into cultivated lands covered with a prosperous people; towns and cities had sprung into existence, and had rapidly increased in wealth and population under the social system of the South;... and the productions in the South of cotton, rice, sugar, and tobacco, for the full development and continuance of which the labor of African slaves was and is indispensable had swollen to an amount which formed nearly three-fourths of the exports of the whole United States and had become absolutely necessary to the wants of civilized man. With interests of such overwhelming magnitude imperiled, the people of the Southern States were driven by the conduct of the North to the adoption of some course of action to avert the danger with which they were openly menaced.”
GAME. SET. MATCH.
This is for extra credit. It comes from a speech in Savannah on March 21st 1861 by Alexander Stephens, VP of the Condederacy.
” The (Confederate) Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions- African slavery as it exists among us- the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the “rock upon which the old Union would split” He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement fo the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away...Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it- when the “Storm came and the wind blew, it fell.” Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition. This, our new Government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth......It is the first government ever instituted upon principles in strict conformity to nature, and the ordination of Providence, in furnishing the materials of human society. Many Governments have been founded upon the principles of certain classes; but the classes thus enslaved were of the same race, and in violation of the laws of nature. Our system commits no such violation of nature’s laws. The negro by nature, or by the curse against Canaan, is fitted for that condition which he occupies in our system. The architect in the construction of buildings, lays the foundation with the proper material- the granite- then comes the brick or the marble. The substratum of our society is made of the material fitted by nature for it, and by experience we know that it is the best, not only for the superior but for the inferior race, that it should be so. It is, indeed in conformity with the Creator. It is not for us to inquire into the wisdom of His ordinances or to question them.
I like to think of them both as leading liberals of their time.
“The slave states extending farthest north were MO and VA.”
Oops....
The slave states extending farthest north were Maryland and Delaware.
Yeah, except that your book would have us believe that the Klan is a solid Northern institution and the South has nothing to do with them. That's one of the reasons why the book as a whole is a joke.
THAT does not make me feel better. ;) It scary crazier.
The main motivation for prohibiting importation was to protect the price of slaves internally. Importation would have driven down prices. The CSA didn't need more slaves. What they did need was more territory to absorb the excess of slaves they were demographically destined to have had in another generation.
But is slavery itself a sin?
OMG. You defend slavery? Sorry, I thought this was a serious conversation. I won't bother you further.
True. But that doesn't stop people from posting them as fact, does it?
But that is NOT a slavery issue; it’s a race issue.
True. And racial issue in the U.S. at the time were abysmal, North and South. But confederate supporters always dredge up the whole 'blacks as slaveowner' issue as a way of saying, "See? How bad could slave ownership have been if blacks were more represented in it than whites?" It's a smokescreen for the devotee's of the Lost Cause.
I would say that this part from article 1, section 9: "The importation of negroes of the African race from any foreign country other than the slaveholding States or Territories of the United States of America, is hereby forbidden; and Congress is required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same" actually protected the international slave trade rather than moved away from it.
>OMG. You defend slavery?
No, I’m defending definitions. It is impossible to communicate when the meaning of words cannot be deciphered.
>Sorry, I thought this was a serious conversation. I won’t bother you further.
So questioning the assertion that “Slavery is a sin” isn’t serious conversation?
Lebron James respectfully disagrees.
We were speaking in context about Lincoln, so I offered up information about Lincoln. Dragging Jefferson into the mix changes nothing about Lincoln.
Indeed, some of the Founders were slave owners and, themselves, could be judged white supremacists. That does not change the fact that Lincoln held little regard for the people he emancipated, nor does it change the reasons for the EP. He held little regard for a great many things, including the sovereignty of our several states and the rights of states to dissolve the compact into which they had entered voluntarily, namely the Union. Lincoln overlooked the fact that the federal government derives authority from the states and from the people thereof.
Dragging the Founders into the discussion does not change the fact that the Civil War was not fought over the injustice of slavery as an institution. Dragging Jefferson out for discussion does not deflect us from the fact that the South was goaded into a war as an excuse for the Union to invade the CSA to reclaim what the North regarded as “theirs.” Northern states were easily brought onboard the war drive by citing (erroneously) that all Southerners were slave owners whose industry undercut prices in the North, thereby affecting the economies of those states. Historically speaking, Northerners didn’t much care for free blacks, either, and they certainly did not want an influx of former slaves taking jobs from white Northerners.
Let’s talk about current events. Which part of the country more strongly champions the People’s concerns over runaway federal power? The states who allied with the Union, like New York, Massachusetts, and New Jersey, or the states who were part of the CSA? Whose representatives more often than not fight the accumulation of power away from the people and the states into the hands of the over-reaching federal government? Curiouser and curiouser. Perhaps the South had the right idea all along about states’ rights and individual liberty.
>True. And racial issue in the U.S. at the time were abysmal, North and South. But confederate supporters always dredge up the whole ‘blacks as slaveowner’ issue as a way of saying, “See? How bad could slave ownership have been if blacks were more represented in it than whites?” It’s a smokescreen for the devotee’s of the Lost Cause.
Ah, I see. I brought it up not for that reason, but to illustrate that there is a need for separating “race” from “slavery” when talking about the issue.
Au contraire.
MD extends to 39 degrees, 50 minute N. DE to 39 degrees, 43 minutes N.
MO's northern boundary is at 40 degrees, 35 minutes. VA, the very farthest north, extends to 40 degrees, 40 minutes.
Of course, this last is now part of WV, but not at the time. The northern tip of the state was actually about 20 miles north of Pittsburg, which I assume you don't consider to be a southern city, and very nearly on the same latitude as NYC.
Nothing at all wrong with allowing people to voluntarily emigrate to another place. You’re misconstruing the intention.
Good point. They attempted to make the international slave trade legal. It just didn’t work, as the border never became effective.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.