It's been quite obvious to me for some time that some Marine somewhere along the line got your little panties in a wad. So here's a warning to every Marine on the ping list about you.
Posted on 11/13/2009 7:05:26 AM PST by Danae
no, the Navy would only put 15 more hours MAX on the blade
NORMally, they would SET DOWN, LAND, recharge the blade and check whether it leaked again. If it did, they would remove it
Sikorsky checked all of them and they all proved good. Go figure
However, it is impossible for an RH-53 towing a mine skid to land and do that while over the water, just because, so, they continued flying for a maximum time, IT WAS NOT A DESIRED condition, nor was it NORMAL, it was critical, it had to be addressed!
You act like it meant nothing. You must have never been in aviation. Helicopter fall down go boom! (Or at least, you have a legitimate reason to think so, and YOU know it)
Many people were there such as Chargin Charlie Beckwith, and Colonel Kyle who was in charge of the landing zone operation.
The operation has been widely studied and analyzed over the decades and it led to many changes but as the Marine’s War College paper admits, the consensus of the Special Operations community settles on the helicopter pilots as the fatal flaw.
And the concensus of the Marine Corps is that the SOF community is FOS, too.
Now I understand, this was some kind of a rah-rah thing for you, I didn’t know that, and I didn’t know that any Americans did not like our incredible Special Operations community.
For you to constantly trash Marines who gave their all is why I said what I said
Charlie Beckwith is a liar, and I met and know the men who can prove it
I also was there off the coast, and I can see you are afraid to admit you were told that about 3 times in this thread
so, Just go away. You’re just trying to piss people off. Some people you piss off dont let go when they are right, though.
I didn't trash any Marines but you did trash Colonel Beckwith and you choose to ignore the man that I have been using as my main source, is Colonel James Kyle also a "liar"?
I wont call Kyle a liar, I have even spoken to him on the phone to his home in Hawaii in the 90’s. No one knows all the complete details, but Kyle must be towing some standard line in saying he alone started the chain of stopping the attempt from going forward.
However, Beckwith is a LIAR, he was told that aircraft commander WANTED to continue the flight, I even sent you confirmation from a Navy source which you still refuse to comment on, and then try to claim you know things. It was Beckwith who refused to let his men on those aircraft when there was still 6 ready to go in, even those same 6 ready to fly back to the Nimitz those 6 hours back, through that same haboob...
You dont know doodly squat and it’s time you just sat down and shut up.
You need to read Kyle's book, he damns the Marines more than anyone else that I am aware of, that is a page from his book in post 45.
Here is what Kyle says about the helicopter that you keep bringing up at Desert 1 with the hydraulic problem.
" Helo 2 made it to Desert 1 after flying nearly two hours with a hydraulic malfunction. In a discussion with the pilot some years later, he told me he had every intention of continuing on, even though the malfunction could not be repaired. He only wanted to inform his leader of the problem, which he knew had an element of risk, but he felt the situation warranted pressing on. His desire to to go on was overruled by the flight leader, who believed the risk was too great.This decision aborted the Eagle Claw and slammed the door on the entire operation.
"Had I known the pilot of No.2 wanted to keep going, I would have informed General Vaughn and gotten him involved in the decision. If the pilot felt it was safe to fly, by God, I would have backed him.
Numerous H-53 pilots that I have subsequently interviewed have stated that this helicopter could have been flown on just one hydraulic system, observing certain precautions...."
I have read his book
You need to read my website
And Kyle is just one of many who wanted HIS OWN team to do it, not a TEAM of MILITARY, Kyle is biased to want ONLY his people
As for Kyle’s statements, I know he’s wrong, but it was BECKWITH on the scene who said what Kyle has claimed was his decision and that even Sieffert said was his decision once, yet the fact remains: BECKWITH started the ball rolling. Everyone else played the game in repeating the standard line.
I am not so sure why you refuse to believe it.
Maybe because there is barely a 100% accurate source on this, Kyle told his version, beckwith outright lied and slandered a lot of men when HE is responsible for it being called off and not being with the ones that were puking in their flightsuits while trying to keep the sky above and the ground below and make sure they didn’t crash.
Kyle can write what he wants, as the on scene commander, he had the final say and most likely would NOT have overridden any of the individual commanders, but Beckwith is a LIAR.
And, from your own posts, you proved you STILL didnt go to my website.
Stop responding. You showed you are only in this to be a moron
He sure does write it. "Helo 2 made it to Desert 1 after flying nearly two hours with a hydraulic malfunction. In a discussion with the pilot some years later, he told me he had every intention of continuing on, even though the malfunction could not be repaired. He only wanted to inform his leader of the problem, which he knew had an element of risk, but he felt the situation warranted pressing on. His desire to to go on was overruled by the flight leader, who believed the risk was too great.This decision aborted the Eagle Claw and slammed the door on the entire operation."
I have the book, I have the audio book too, and you still refuse to go to my website and read what contradicts it
With all your personal insults to me in almost every post, and so many misstatements and lack of sources and insults of the various branches of the Special Forces community and one of it’s greatest leaders, I am not really interested in your personal blog or web site especially now that I know this a rah-rah marine thing to you rather than about the mission.
I do recognize how hard you promote your site though in post after post.
It's been quite obvious to me for some time that some Marine somewhere along the line got your little panties in a wad. So here's a warning to every Marine on the ping list about you.
That was a meaningless and childish post.
I remember it vividly. When the news hit, it marked Carter’s defeat in the presidential election. What a grotesque failure.
Then you understood it.
Numerous H-53 pilots that I have subsequently interviewed have stated that this helicopter could have been flown on just one hydraulic system, observing certain precautions...."
I take it you have never flown on a CH-53 with hydraulic problems, or know anything about the hydraulic systems of a CH/RH-53D, I was trained by Sikorsky on the AFCS of both which included a complete breakdown of Hydraulic systems and flew as a test crew member on test flights and I will tell you that any pilot that says a CH/RH-53 can be flown with only one hydraulic system functioning has never flown a CH/RH-53D in that condition.
What they undoubtedly said but you didn't understand is that A CH/RH-53D can lose one hydraulic system out of three and still fly, not that one can be flown with only one hydraulic system functioning.
I have experienced an intermittent dual hydraulic failure on a CH-53D Bureau No 157727 and it was the closest I ever came to dying while flying test hops.
Wow, you are a loser
You spoke to someone once and you are an expert
I was actually part of it and I dont know shit??
That quote is from Colonel Kyle and if you read that post then you know that the Marine pilot of the helicopter felt that it could fly, therefore setting the army part of the operation into action, but his flight leader grounded it and killed the entire mission. If the helo 5 had not turned back then it would have been available if the Navy BIM policy had been known then helo 6 would have been available.
One pilot wanting to fly with his bad hydraulics, another co-pilot trying to force his pilot to continue on to Desert 1.
In the end it was the lack of helicopters that killed the mission.
You are wrong.
You have never flown on them, worked on them and are repeating hearsay that technically is wrong, and can be proven wrong by anyone that has ever worked on them.
A CH/RH-53D cannot fly with only one hydraulic system out of the three working.
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